Poll: 2010 Expectations

[poll id="368"]




111 comments
KnowLedge
KnowLedge

The Indiana Pacers offered Roy Hibbert and Chris Copeland for Goran Dragic. "And some money," said Dragic. (...) "According to my information, Phoenix will not accept the offer." Ekipa 24 

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

Hey guys/gals, I don't know much about racing but maybe some of you do. The Tony Steward/Kevin Ward Jr. accident last...is it normal for someone to go that far on to the track the way Kevin Ward Jr did? 

Also, if you listen to the video with the audio, you can hear Tony gun his engine but the camera angle doesn't catch all of it...(the true video is graphic)...did he hit him on purpose or was he trying to scare him by getting really close to him and then accidentally hits him? 


My gosh what devastation...RIP Kevin Ward Jr. 

orlando_knickfan
orlando_knickfan

Its clear the cavs will be the class of the east next year, but their defense will be an absolute sieve.

Marvel_
Marvel_

no more news on what Utah's involvement in the last trade would've been?


*continues searching for clues



Anthony Gaetano DeCesare
Anthony Gaetano DeCesare

I know everyone mentions marc gasol as the knicks will go after in 2015, but their is a guy no one is talking about that is a free agent and his name is AL Jefferson on Charlotte.....what do u guys think of him?

jax13
jax13

It's funny to think about, so Felton n chandler did not get along last year n they will probably be starting for mavs this season. Good luck coach Carlisle!

I don't care what stats are thrown out there. Phil made a great deal n got us a good pg for triangle n got rid of a few guys that do not mesh well with triangle.

rico
rico

FYI:  Mark Warkentien has a super long history in and out of the NBA. He was Jerry Tarkanian's assistant at UNLV, he jumped to the NBA as a scout for the Supersonics, he was hired by the Nuggets as an assistant in the front office and replaced Kiki V as GM of  Denver.  He won exec of the year as GM of Denver in 2009.  I think he may have also been a GM of the Cavs for a minute.  


What I'm saying is that he's no Steve Mills , he's actually a basketball guy.

MeloStat301
MeloStat301

What some people don't understand...is "Moneyball"...the baseball term for production on the dollar doesn't work in the NBA.  Don't take my word for it....here is Mark Cubans take of the "/younger/cheaper/stats" analysis:


context. We assign credit and blame for on-court successes and failures to individual players, as if it were baseball. It’s been called the Moneyball effect. Ever since Michael Lewis dropped that Billy Beane love letter, many of us in the analytics community have been obsessed with creating Moneyball for basketball; we’ve been on a grand quest to identify a unified theory of basketball success. However, on the way to mimicking the wonderful strides of baseball analytics, we forgot to consider how drastically different the two games are. In reality, baseball is only kind of a team sport; basketball is entirely a team sport.

From an analytics perspective, baseball is checkers; basketball is chess. One could even argue that assigning any individual credit in basketball is a fool’s errand, and that contemporary basketball analytics erroneously conflate the circumstances of a player’s environment with his individual ability.

According to Cuban, “It’s not like Moneyball in baseball, where analytics are a good way to determine who to sign or who not to sign, unless where they were is analogous to where you’re trying to bring them. [A basketball player] might have X number of win shares on a team that likes to push the ball, and a team that slows it down is a different beast. A guy might be a great rebounder if a team keeps him close to the basket, but if we show on pick-and-rolls or play zone, those numbers are going to be very different.”1



Example:  Monta Ellis-


In Dallas, Ellis’s shooting efficiency has improved in every area. He’s getting to the basket more, and converting more of his opportunities when he gets there. Ellis has gone from below average to above average in the midrange, and has become one of the best guards in the league from the right elbow. His 3-point percentage is up, too.

Ellis is quick to point out he’s able to be more finicky with his shot selection this year, in part because he shares the floor with more offensive firepower than he had back in Milwaukee.

“Playing with a group of guys that defenses respect takes a load off of me, so I don’t have to be 75 percent of the offense,” he says. “I can do 45 percent and it frees me up to contribute in other ways to help the team.”



http://grantland.com/features/dallas-mavericks-monta-ellis-dirk-nowitzki-2014/

C0P0
C0P0

@KnowLedge

Hibbert seems like an extra sensitive guy. Nothing worse than a soft big on your team. That's why I loved Ewing! 


Cope was an opportunity grab at best. Pacers thought, he'd have some value off the bench, like in NY. We'll weaken their bench a notch he'll be good enough to throw in a package at the very worst.


LOL That's working out as planned.


Pacers without George, Stephenson, a real PG, soft center in Hibbert and a weak bench, are looking like a team of missed opportunities on the verge of implosion. 


Good for them. 

greekfreak
greekfreak

@SheSaidSpikeWho. He definitely should not have walked that far out onto the race track. That was crazy

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@orlando_knickfan 

I wouldn't count the Bulls out if Rose can return to a facsimile of his old form. They will be near the top in defense and Gasol and Rose will boost their offense. That could result in 60 wins.

KnowLedge
KnowLedge

@OLDKNICK3 I think that was his only dunk in his nba career, him and Iverson had a bet that Fisher wasn't going to dunk while Iverson was guarding him, Iverson lost the bet and the finals

C0P0
C0P0

@OLDKNICK3 Look at the hops on Fish! LOL Go a-head coach!

brookdon
brookdon

No way Felton starts over Nelson and Harris

OLDKNICK3
OLDKNICK3

@jax13 Was it felton & Tyson not getting along??? I heard it was Tyson & Carmelo & Amare!

tjhassan3
tjhassan3

@jimm120 Thanks for the heads up to never take that "stat" seriously! 

1harris1
1harris1

Unless D. Rose can stay healthy, something he hasn't been able to do for two years running, the Bulls aren't winning anything of consequence this season either.

2dullah2
2dullah2

I don't think luck has ANYTHING to do with it... He is HANDS DOWN the BEST player in the league (roids or not) by a WIDE margin...

He pretty much can have whatever he wants teamwise... He give WHATEVER team he goes to the favorite to win it all... Players are lining up to get a shot to play with him...

It's the team he decides to play for thats lucky... Lol

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@OLDKNICK3 

He has been fortunate in terms of making his moves. He made sure that he was going to a better situation and took less to make the Miami deal work. Cleveland went from 61 to 19 wins, enabling them to get the assets to put a strong team around him. Now he has attracted Love, who is forcing a trade to form another Big 3.

I often wonder what we would have been able to do if Melo came as a free agent. 

OLDKNICK3
OLDKNICK3

@Knicks_Fanatic The cavs shaping up to soon be a POWER HOUSE in one turn around season.

Good things seem to follow lebron,

KnowLedge
KnowLedge

@MeloStat301 Ellis always been a good mid range shooter, his 3pt game is average, the Nba needs to change a lot of things

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@MeloStat301 

The original aspects of "Moneyball" back in the day involved trying to identify players whose on the field production was undervalued. The classic example was overvaluing BA and undervaluing OBP. The A's were able to sign players that walked more than the average player and get more bang for the limited bucks they had to spend. 

There are relationships in terms of basketball being a soft-capped sport. Teams that can identify value players that will contribute, within their system will prosper. Look at the Spurs finding players off the scrapheap that have great value within their system, yet little value elsewhere. Take guys like Boris Diaw, Danny Green, and Patty Mills, who are very productive as Spurs.

The problem with the Knicks is that we have switched from D'Antoni's 7SOL to Woody's slow, deliberate attack to Phil's triangle in the span of what will be 4 seasons. We need some continuity and consistency. We need to draft and sign players that will fit within what we do. Hopefully in a year or two, the system will be established and the roster constructed to maximize it's effectiveness.



KnowLedge
KnowLedge

@Sandro Guedes Trying to trade a Stiff and a Scrub for  Dragic, if suns would have done that would of been 1 of the dumbest trades ever

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@KingTkB I was watching it thinking, "what is he doing? Why is he going so far on the track?" I know the cars slow down when the caution is given but still. Smh. Scary. 

stillmatic
stillmatic

Backup to the backup plan strictly

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@brookdon 

Felton is going to ride the pine. 
Nelson, Ellis, Parsons, Dirk, and Chandler is a nice improvement for the Mavs.

jax13
jax13

As much as I hate to admit it, you are 100% right 2dullah2. Le brons teams are favorites cause of him n everyone wants to play with him. I am sure ray Allen n Shawn Marion will sign with cavs soon enough.

OLDKNICK3
OLDKNICK3

@Knicks_Fanatic Yeah I wonder as well some times but you get what you get. As you said some are just more lucky or fortunate and some of us havent seen a championship since 1973

BiggieTKB
BiggieTKB

@Knicks_Fanatic @MeloStat301 that's all great but no matter how you slice it Basketball's individual statistics (basic and advanced) are exceedingly dependent on (and influenced by) team mates.

MeloStat301
MeloStat301

@Knicks_Fanatic @MeloStat301  I agree...establish a culture..system...and plug guys accordingly into pieces that fit.  Some guy on a team who isn't producing..and being "overpaid" can go to a team that system fits him and play up to his contract...that's the whole point of "moneyball" not working in the NBA.  Baseball you can do a lot more things individually...than you can in basketball.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@KnowLedge @Knicks_Fanatic 

Yes, Dragic is more valuable than Hibbert, but that offer isn't even a starter for a deal.

Last year Indiana gave up a 1st, Green, and Plumlee to get Scola from Phoenix.

OLDKNICK3
OLDKNICK3

@Knicks_Fanatic @brookdon

What will Fat-Ton say his excuse will be this season ???

Chip on the old shoulder....

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@OLDKNICK3 @Knicks_Fanatic 

2015 is the year that we will finally get to rebuild the roster. We will see who wants to play with Melo and for how much. As long as Dolan lets Phil run the show, we will have a chance to compete.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@MeloStat301 @Knicks_Fanatic 

Mark Cuban does overstate the case a bit. For instance, moving a rebounder further away from the basket is no different than getting a right handed power hitter to play in Yankee Stadium or expecting a Rockies player to continue his production playing elsewhere. Baseball does have other factors beyond an individual's skill.

LeBron is going to be LeBron, no matter where he plays. Melo is going to be Melo. You have finite resources to build a team around them. Using advanced statistics as part of the process is what all NBA teams are currently doing.

If you look at Bargnani from a Moneyball perspective, you could have easily predicted that he would be a poor fit on the Knicks. Likewise, Novak, who had value to the 54-28 team, wouldn't be able to replicate that in Toronto.

KnowLedge
KnowLedge

@Sandro Guedes Yea they will but i hope not for Cope and Hibby or players of that caliber, lol

stillmatic
stillmatic

Big man plan or plan in general?

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@OLDKNICK3 

I still don't understand why we wanted Felton back after he got run out of Denver and Portland. He led a mutiny against Nate McMillan. He was out of shape. He was never more than a below average player, except for half a season under D'Antoni.

rico
rico

@Knicks_Fanatic People are forever trying to analyze the ineffable, using algorithms and analytics are tools popularwith this generation of "money-people" to explain the world. If only it was that easy?


There is a place for them but I don't believe you can lead by them.  For instance according the "analytics" it has been "proven" that Derek Jeter is an average to not so great shortstop.  People will actually argue this as fact.  Yet we know he's one of the best baseball players we've ever seen.  Anybody who would disagree with that is a bloody idiot, sorry analytics you lose that one.


Look at the stock market and the leading economic indicators every day and the stock market has never in it's history been higher, and the economy is the strongest on earth.  According to the stats, people in the USA should be living better than ever before and better than anyone else.  Yet for most of people in the US that are not the 1% its harder than ever to do everything from buy groceries to get our kids an education.  The stats say one thing, the real world says another.


So I am not dismissing analytics at all just pointing out that they are one tool we can use to assess a player's value or productivity, but sometimes the wrong tool, or a tool that is given too much weight in the discussion.


It was Mark Twain who said;  There are liars, damn-liars and statisticians.  


Numbers-people can make the numbers do whatever they want, this is NY home of Wallstreet, they invented the Numbers hustle

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@BiggieTKB @Knicks_Fanatic 

How can you say that as a blanket statement? If you believe that defense doesn't help or hurt pitchers advanced stats, then we will have to disagree. 

I'm always amused at the ostrich approach to statistics around here,.

OLDKNICK3
OLDKNICK3

@Knicks_Fanatic For me baseball was always an individualistic sport more than a team sport.

However in my youth I enjoyed the Pitcher versus Batter thing

Man against Man and the rest of us just watch.

Basketball just like Football is more of a real team sport.

Of course in OLD KNICK's personal opinion.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@OLDKNICK3 @Knicks_Fanatic 

I agree to a point. But batters are pitched differently depending on where they are hitting in the lineup, who is batting behind them, and what the game situation is.

Basketball, if Woody is coaching, is man against man.