Bobby Parnell 1 (BARON)

Young, power arms may be asked to help bullpen

The Mets are more likely to put top prospects in  the bullpen, like the Cardinals did last season, than end up with a top free-agent reliever, according to a team source (Martino, Jan. 30).

The team has reportedly assured Bobby Parnell that he’ll be their closer in 2014.

So, “Why would Grant Balfour or Fernando Rodney go there if they don’t know they’re going to close?” said one N.L. official (Martino, Jan. 30).

The Rays signed Balfour to a two-year, $12 million deal (Topkin, Jan. 26). The Mariners, Orioles and Mets (Brown, Jan. 28) have recently been linked to Rodney, who is reportedly seeking $10 million a year.

Sandy Alderson said Tuesday that, at this point in the offseason, he’s likely to limit free-agent relievers to minor-league deals and may still add one or two arms to the roster (DiComo, Jan. 29).

Matthew Cerrone, Lead Writer

What’s old is new again, I guess? The Cardinals used top, hard-throwing, starting pitching prospects in their bullpen last year, in an effort to beef up their bullpen and continue to get young pitchers their limited innings. The Dodgers did this with Pedro Martinez way back. It was a common way to integrate all pitchers prior to MLB doubling down on specialization during the last decade. I’m sure you’ll see more teams going back to this, like the Yankees will have to do this year as well, and it reads from Martino like the Mets are no different.

Noah Syndergaard will end up in the rotation. He will NOT be in the bullpen, that is obvious. However, Rafeal Montero, Jacob deGrom and Cory Mazzoni could easily find themselves in relief at Citi Field before September. I’ve talked to people in player development with other teams who believe Montero will eventually be a reliever anyway, mostly because of his pinpoint control and small frame. Also, there are only five spots in the rotation and something has to give, assuming a trade for a bat isn’t going to happen.

89 comments
Chris Duffy
Chris Duffy

and they will be misused .....overused.....abused......and ruined.......Generation K 2.14

Chris Biehl
Chris Biehl

It's about time. Mazzoni, Walters, Leathersich should all see action for the mets in 2014

cver
cver

Once again, I'm no expert, but are they kidding?  Would they really try converting Montero to a reliever to keep somebody else like Colon, Lannan or Niese in the rotation (who won't be around more than 3 years and/or will possibly be injured, since he already has a problem)?  I don't believe for a second that the Cards would let Montero settle into a reliever role permanently without trying him as a starter, where he's had a ton of success.  This kid has already conquered AAA in the horrible Vegas environement way better than Wheeler has.  He has earned his chance and all this BS about Super Two and everything needs to be adjusted and if Alderson is really putting particularly budget and flexibility on the back burner to winning games, he should have Montero up to start the season and maybe Syndergaard, too.  Why bother with the scrapheap, when you can have the quality youngsters around to see what they've got.

nym4lyfe
nym4lyfe

Not gonna lie I'm ashamed to be fans of the same team as Cerrone and the others that run Metsblog. They're an embarrassment to the franchise and the fanbase.

Joe Paulson
Joe Paulson

If Chris Young can pitch, that 7M seems a bit less stupid.

lindro88
lindro88

I've been posting about this for several years. If the Dodgers and Cardinals can start guys off in the pen, so can the Mets. It's the only way to build a strong staff. Signing 35 year olds to multi year deals is not how it's done.

realmetfan
realmetfan

does anybody have fred.jeff wilpons email address?

john smith
john smith

Please remove the coma from the headline,it should read "young power arms",not "young,power arms".When I first saw  it I thought you were referring to someone named "Young".

realmetfan
realmetfan

I remember as far back as 64, a met/pirate game at shea, i was 5, went with my Late Dad, thats how i became a met fan, I understand money prob's, but here's my question, If the Wilpons really seriously were commited to winning like todays new york post said, Steve Phillips, why wont they sell team? wouldnt the sale of team help ease there personal money prob's?

Marc Seldin
Marc Seldin

They couldn't get any old timers to sign, eh? lol

yankeehater
yankeehater

I haven't read of one person suggesting that Montero is a future reliever. All ive read is whether his ceiling is as a 3-4 starter or as a possible 2.

Metsnow
Metsnow

Not really concerned about our pitching which looks to be real good...at least on paper. What happened to all the changes that Sandy said would take place to improve the team? Our IF is not good at SS & 1B and we have done NOTHING to improve from last year!!

hashburry
hashburry

So Montero's value is already diminishing.  What happened to Familia being the stud who goes to the bullpen? Oh yeah, can't throw strikes and has mechanical problems.  So do the Mets [refer to bring in a bunch of borderline has beens, like they have been doing since they ran out of money, which Cerrone, Barron, et al are "fine with", or do they jeopardize the development of all of these supposedly stud prospects by having them pitch 60 innings out of the bullpen?

How do you limit their innings in a useful way by pitching them out of the bullpen?  You can't get these guys into the 130+ inning range they would get in the minors.  The mets can't afford to spend on a somewhat predictable bullpen.  Other teams that are mentioned use maybe one young guy in a bullpen role, and it certainly is no guarantee that that will help develop them.  And now Metsblog is invoking the Yankees as a team to emulate?  How did the bullpen stints for Joba and Hughes work out?

It's all about the money.  The Mets will likely spend less on their bullpen than any team in baseball.  Signing Hawkins at 2M would have solved most of these issues.  And, btw, why doesn't anyone use an analytical approach to showing how pitchers who have spent a decent amount of time as major league starters and then are moved to the bullpen as they become less effective as starters are a much better bet than stunting a young guy's development by having the likes of Terry Collins burn them out at 23 years old because he is desperately trying to save his own neck?

AldersonFake
AldersonFake

@AVSNY Now It's strategy/org philosophy to use young arms in Pen? Nothing to do with no $ to bring quality in? Parnell is awful, btw.

Salman Ali
Salman Ali

Your comment about Montero being destined for the pen doesn't seem to be backed up by much evidence.


Every single prospect list has been pretty high on the guy.  He has a 3-4 pitch repertoire with pinpoint control.  He absolutely dominated over many innings in hitter's heaven Las Vegas. 


Other than his height there is nothing about the guy that screams reliever and not starter.  The question seems to be, is he a middle to back end starter or can have be an impact number 2 type guy.


Your comment about him seems like an arbitrary designation unless you provide us with some more substantive information.

xgamblorx
xgamblorx

This is pretty much de rigueur for a lot of teams who are breaking in young pitching prospects and limiting their major league innings. Putting a guy in the bullpen for a few months until a rotation spot opens up isn't the same as making him a reliever.

Jeff Robins
Jeff Robins

Jake, I don't think it's been a real option til now but it will only get better in the next few years as the prospects move up the ladder. We have way more prospects than starting positions. But if we now have this many, and can keep drafting a few to keep the pipeline filled, it has to be done. Still use some here and there as trade chips.

eric88
eric88

So it's official. the Mets lied about spending in 2014. The roster is set. The payroll ends up at 77.65 million dollars placing them 27th in MLB. That is 16 million less than 2013! The average ticket prices,77.10, remain the second highest in MLB only behind the champion Red Sox. The total TV contract is the 3rd richest in MLB. The inside stadium advertising revenue is #1 in all MLB [Pepsi porch etc.]. The stadium naming rights Citi is #1 in MLB. 2nd highest beer prices in MLB, average sales just under a half a million per game, just beer.

My friends, we are being had and played for S-U-C-K-E-R-S !

drmetfan
drmetfan

Cerrone, Why have a blog and have people take their time to reply to your posts if you are going to delete what they write?

Chaka Paul
Chaka Paul

@yankeehater where have you been? all I read about is him moving to the bullpen but I can'f figure out why. I will not accept small frame either. He put up numbers similar (+ sometimes more favorable) to Harvey yet the mets seem hesitant to make him a starter 

sylow59
sylow59

@AldersonFake @AVSNY look at the usage of Kelly, Wacha, Maness, Wacha, CMart, and Rosenthal last year.

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@Salman Aliactually to the contrary. The reason he wasn't on BP's list is because they strongly believe he's a RP... Therefore he didn't make the top 100. 


Where as MLB.com believes strongly he will stick as a starting pitcher, therefore he's in their top 100. The book is out on him still.


Now he has a 3 pitch repertoire where his fastball is + because of his control but has fairly average velocity for a Right Hander, and his 2 secondary pitches (Curve/slider) and change are average, but with good control.

metstastic
metstastic

@xgamblorx Technically, he's a reliever if he's in the bullpen, but I know what you mean. He is not destined to be a long term reliever.

metstastic
metstastic

@eric88 Did this account for all the arbitration signings and all the "minimum" salary players needed to make the 25 man roster?

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@eric88Don't forget the CRUSHING Debt and massive loans that they are required to pay back or lose the team. 



stemog
stemog

@eric88I believe it was posted the payroll is currently at $87.1 million.

Tarheel11
Tarheel11

@eric88 According to Cots they are at 75.4 with just 12 players. Assuming the remaining 13 are paid at minimum that puts them at 81.9M. Bigger problem I have is that in a year when they had so much fall off in salary they didn't even replace what fell off. And given it's a year when they are taking home an additional 25M over last year in revenue sharing. The Wilpon's money issues are much bigger than people realize. At what point does MLB step in? 

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

@eric88 Here's the thing...if they only care about making money, a 90 win team is going to be a lot more profitable then a 70 win team.  It's not even close.

So I think they are trying and to be honest if you take this offseason in a vacuum, where else is there to spend that would have taken us to the $100M range?  Drew is still on the table, despite what they're saying.  Tanaka wasn't a fit for us at all, Cano didn't really either even if they plan for a $150M long term payroll.

I'm not being an apologist, just trying to look at this from the other side.

Andrew Vazzano
Andrew Vazzano moderator

@drmetfan Comments are being flagged for being off-topic, curse words or other derogatory name calling. These comments will be removed.

chasesimms
chasesimms

@drmetfanNot only that, but with this new format you can't find comments you're looking for. 


Apparently they are "working on that" though. 

Poop-a-doodle-doo!
Poop-a-doodle-doo!

@drmetfan Is it the editors deleting the replies, or is it one of the "cranky" readers?

Hmmmm....

yankeehater
yankeehater

@Chaka Paul @yankeehater I personally had not heard it....though reading through the comments it appears that some have in fact said that. I cant see how a guy who has pretty much owned every level he has pitched at, as a starter, and is young, is now destined for the pen. Personally, it can only help the mets (for themselves and for a possible trade) to keep him starting. Then again, the mets are going to have a lot of arms next year when Harvey is back.

Salman Ali
Salman Ali

@Mark Kelly @Salman Ali Other than BP, which I did fail to account for, most of the other prospect lists such as BA, Fangraphs, Law, etc. have the guy scouted as a mid-rotation starter.


The book may be out on the guy but he has the pitches, the command and the body of work at the upper levels to strongly suggest he's a starter.  And that's what most scouts seem to think.  


Calling him a reliever at his point seems premature.  

Tarheel11
Tarheel11

@metstastic @eric88 Go look up Cots. They break down all year's payroll's. Mets 12 signed (including all settled Arb cases = 75.4. 13 remaining spots at leag min. 500k brings to 81.9

Tarheel11
Tarheel11

@Mark Kelly @eric88 That's what frustrates me when these fans say oh they will just go out and sign one of these elite SS next year. People don't realize how bad the Wilpon money situation really is. 

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@stemog@eric88yeah all the arb's haven't come out yet, also with the way baseball works it will only go up as there are guys who come up from minors etc etc.

Chaka Paul
Chaka Paul

@BringBackDaveTelghe @eric88 I agree. It blows my mind at how mad mets fans are after all the money that was spent this offseason. An offseason that wasn't exactly a ses pool of free agents at reasonable prices either btw. Everyone is complaining about upgrading at SS, with who Drew? Sorry but I'm not on board with that and I'm saying that after coming to terms with the fact that Tejada most likely isn't the long term answer at short. Everyone wants the mets to throw millions at guys who really aren't that much better than what we have. I'd rather stick with Tejada for another year than sign Drew to 3 years at $10 mil per

xgamblorx
xgamblorx

@BringBackDaveTelghe @eric88 A $100m team with this core wouldn't be a 90-win team anyway. If you look at it from that side, the team's calculus is why spend the extra $15-20m (depending on how you count payroll) to get another 5-7 wins that push the team to something in the low-to-mid 80's wins. From a baseball standpoint, that's unfortunate, but from a business standpoint, why spend more to make basically the same amount?

sylow59
sylow59

1) the "voices"

2) his home planet sends the information directly into his tooth fillings.

3) a combination of 1 and 2

drmetfan
drmetfan

@Andrew Vazzano @drmetfan Oh! I see. Being flagged. Andrew, show me a comment where I have cursed or being off topic? Go ahead. i will wait. You guys at Metsblog are lucky the Mets have such a passionate fan base. 

metstastic
metstastic

@Salman Ali @Mark Kelly Scouts think that all short pitchers are destined to be relievers. And a majority are.. It's just the way it else. He'll have to prove himself. 

Tarheel11
Tarheel11

@Mark Kelly @stemog @eric88 But all the Mets arb cases are settled and included in the 75M. Now the remaining 13 roster spots are up to the Mets on how much they pay them. Assuming a couple get thrown 20-30K more than league minimum you're at 82+. And the guys being called up are getting pro rated league minimum. So a guy coming p for a 15 day spot is gonna make 40k roughly. So at MOST you're talking about an additional 2M tops for call ups. So it looks like Sandy meant it when he said 85m.

Tarheel11
Tarheel11

See that would make it worse because then that would mean they went from a 100m to 81 in payroll. If that's indeed how they look at it then we as fans are really in trouble

Tarheel11
Tarheel11

@mets2014 @Tarheel11 @eric88 Although if you look at Cot's 2013 numbers they show Santana's 5.5 and Bay's 3.0 listed as a 2014 obligation. Yet when you pull up 2014's numbers they don't list them at all. Wierd! 

chasesimms
chasesimms

@stemog@drmetfanI am interested to see how many comments come in during regular season games with this new format. 

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@stemog@drmetfanEven though traffic from from 2013 set record high's? 


i've been a regular since 2006. I don't "Comment" as much anymore becuase the comment section has turned in the WFAN, before the Mongo's started to make francesca's show funny with the constant torments.

stemog
stemog

@drmetfanI can't believe they're not concerned so many of the regulars have left. Blogs have a life span and this one's time is winding down.