USATSI_7931203_110579513_lowres

Wilmer Flores still trying to prove himself

Wilmer Flores hit a grand slam Monday, taking advantage of his first start in six games.

He also had a two-run double earlier in the game.

He’s batting .240 with a .283 OBP, one home run and seven RBI in 15 games for the Mets this season. Six of his RBIs came on Monday night.

“It felt good,” Flores said after the game. “I’ve been struggling the last couple of games. … Tonight meant a lot. I just want to prove to them that I can do the job. I know I’m good and I can do this.”




150 comments
qualcomm
qualcomm

Dear whomever is in charge,

Play him. Also, play him.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Play Him

Darrell Smith
Darrell Smith

They need to do one of 3 things with Flores. 1.....Play him every day. 2....Send him back to Vegas , where he'll play everyday or.....3...Trade him or Murphy..

Doubleday
Doubleday

When I watched the highlights of last night's game, 'tolo kept serving up ground balls, and Wilmer kept scooping them up like he's been doing it his whole life (He kind of has).  So please stop, everyone, telling me Wilmer Flores can't play shortstop, because he can.  

Here's what I think:  Wilmer was signed as a 16 year old SS.  He shot up to 6'3" in the low minors before the Mets knew that they were going to sign David Wright to a long-term contract, at a time when it looked like Tejada was a legitimate long-term solution at SS.  As insurance, in the event that they lost David, they moved Wilmer to 3B under the guise of his being too big to be a SS, anymore.  Then they signed David forever, so Flores was blocked, and so they moved him to 2B, because nobody really liked Daniel Murphy's defense, and his bat was trade bait.  Come full-circle to this spring, and David has complete ownership of 3B; Murphy is still here and OK at 2B (When he remembers where he is); but Tejada Frito-munched his game away, so back to SS went Flores, where he should have been all along.  And he worked hard to recondition himself for the position, never once complaining.

He's 22 years old, he has outgrown AAA already, he's a legitimate and completely natural hitter with lightning fast hands and a good eye, and he CAN  and SHOULD play SS for this team everyday, moving forward.  Other players would have faltered being moved around like Wilmer has so often and at such a young age, but he's handled it well and no matter where they stick him, Wilmer Flores hits.  We need offense. This should be a no-brainer.  We have a 22-year old hard-working natural hitter who has the ability to play SS, hit, hit for power, and drive in runs.  If this were the Braves in the last decade, Bobby Cox would put Flores in the line-up every night, in the same place in the batting order, and let him play.  Of course, Bobby Cox was a professional manager.  I hated the Braves out of sheer envy for years, and I have nothing but respect for Cox.

Tormented Mets Fan
Tormented Mets Fan

If Flores isn't playing tonight I'm walking to wrigley field and back handing Terry in the mouth

rstpigeon
rstpigeon

We'll never know what Flores is unless he plays everyday. So, just play him, for better or worse. At the very least, he's bought himself a week's worth of consecutive starts with the last performance.

monstah
monstah

I do agree with some of the comments here that "if you aint hittin, you are  sitting" if players deliver, they KEEP playing. To have Campbell or Flores deliver in a start and then sit for game after game, that's just stupid. And if Campbell playing well makes Duda sweat and focus better and start to deliver -- great! And if Flores & Tejada fighting for the SS job makes them better, good. Competition is good. Because I dont care what CY is getting paid - he does not deserve to start. And TC has to stop using Grandy as a clean up hitter. But yes, let the young talent play and IF they deliver, they play.

C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

Flores needs to get regular reps.  On BOTH sides of the ball.  He needs to prove that he can hit at this level at 22, because to be fair, he couldn't really hit at this level last season at 21.


Understood.  Here's the issue:  Tejada HAS hit at this level.  At both 21 AND 22 yrs old, hitting .284 and .289 respectively.  I know.  The numbers are hollow because he's just a singles hitter.  Except in that .289 season he also had 26 2Bs (is it so far fetched to believe that he would've had 30+ 2Bs with 110 more ABs...a full season's worth of ABs?)

Then, as many of you think apparently, the FO decided that he didn't hit for enough power and told him he needed to get into better shape.  When he didn't (read: ignored their direct order), they KILLED him in the press about conditioning and insubordination, and you lot ATE IT UP.  And he went on to have a HORRIBLE 2013, which included a disjointed 208 ABs where he was injured, exiled AND yo-yo'd in and out of the lineup.  As for defense, if you are looking at these two players and can't readily admit/see that Tejada plays a more competent SS than Flores, nothing anyone says is going to change your mind.  

Now, here's my question:  Why the hell should we have more faith in Flores' "potential" to hit at this level, than Tejada's HISTORY of doing so?

kingman76
kingman76

1st start in 6 games - it's criminal what they're doing to this kid.  Let him play.  We all know what Tejada is - a back-up at best.  And shame on all those people who said he was a liability at short - he's doing fine.

greekgod
greekgod

Let the productive players play and we might make the playoffs...that is the  key...as Yogi Berra said...."if you ain't hitten' your sitting."

Doubleday
Doubleday

They've been grooming Flores since he was 16.  He is now 22 and even at that young age, he has outgrown AAA.  Let him play.

C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

@Doubleday Blocked at 3B?  Slightly revisionist, don't you think?  Maybe the averaging 20 E's at SS for 4 years straight had something to do with it too?  whattaya think?

@Doubleday I'm sure that on some chart or excel spreadsheet or a calculator, SA has figured out that it is mathematically and logically impossible for Flores to succeed at shortstop. Powerpoint slide showing why, t/c.

@Tormented Mets Fan I think you should do it even if he is in. Just because he can use some shaking up.

Vee!
Vee!

@Tormented Mets Fan I'll be at the game. I'll be sure to voice my opinion in the form of a sign that says "If Flores Isn't In I'm Burning The Vines"

This might also be my last night as a member of planet earth

mike23
mike23

@rstpigeon agree, no reason to keep going back and fourth, let FLores start from this point on and lets see what we have. If he sucks he sucks but if he hits and makes the routine plays maybe either a trade could be made or maybe he is the mets SS for years to come.. one thins is for sure we wont know unless mets give him a legit shot, no more back and fourth, we know what Tejada is already. 

rcmets
rcmets

@C.K. Dexter Haven 

Jason Bay hit 40 HR's one season I guess we should put him back in left field because of his "HISTORY"

mike23
mike23

@C.K. Dexter Haven Flores has had better offensive seasons in the minors and has more upside offensively but needs playing time in order to prove it, Tejada has had years to show what he can do and even at his best it was pretty mediocre. 


Flores should be playing SS every day from this point on, no reason to continue to go back and fourth, Tejada is what he is, we know that already. Time to give Flores a legit opportunity to either fail or succeed, we wont know either way if he isn't given the opportunity.

Greg Nichols
Greg Nichols

Because tejada will never be more than a back up and Flores has potential to be an impact player. I don't want to settle for mediocrity.

qualcomm
qualcomm

@kingman76 i'd love an explanation of why so many bogus reports were leaked.  Maybe he's being hidden because they found out the kid CAN play there and they're covering up wasted development time. 

72tilltc
72tilltc

@kingman76 The people that said he couldn't play short thought Ankiel was better than Lagares

Steven Festa
Steven Festa

Fielding % and errors are outdated and flawed stats

72tilltc
72tilltc

@Dr. Jonathan Reefer Tejada also had an eror removed from his ledger when he clanked a backhand against the Nats. Tejad has failed to complete too many DP's to remeber with his weak arm. Flores has been perfect on DP balls.

Doubleday
Doubleday

@C.K. Dexter Haven @Doubleday Here's the thing:  It's MY theory.  I don't need anyone's approval.  If you don't agree with me, that's fine - but it doesn't change what I think.

ltorres14
ltorres14

Derek Jeter had 50 errors one season in the minors. He did alright.

gpopper
gpopper

Lol, love your nerve though

C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

@rcmets  yeah because Bay's 4.5 years of ineptitude on the ML level is absolutely on par with Ruben's sub par 400 ABs.  Yeah, I think we're done....

rcmets
rcmets

@C.K. Dexter Haven 

Just looked at the stats and for the two seasons you've referenced Tejada's offensive WAR was -10.5 on 2010 and -0.6 in 2011.  LOL.  That's quite a history there. For comparison's sake that would rank him in the mid 20's among starting SS today. And that's in his BEST seasons.

C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

@mike23  Flores has more upside offensively.  THAT is the only thing in your post that's actually accurate, but hey...make your arguments however you need.

rcmets
rcmets

@C.K. Dexter Haven @rcmets 

In 1500+ career at bats, Tejada has a career offensive WAR of -35.5. Do you even look at the numbers or do you like Tejada because you think he is cute? 

qualcomm
qualcomm

@C.K. Dexter Haven I disagree; Tejada was passable in his best season and has had more than enough time to prove what he can do.  How can any case be made for not giving Flores a chance?  The team that will play Duda in left can't give Flores a chance.  It's crazy.

72tilltc
72tilltc

@C.K. Dexter Haven  The speed the ball leaves Flores hand and bat vs the lack of speed the ball leaves Tejadas hand and bat. The fact that Tejada in order to make a play at first plays halfway when Flors is on the outfield grass. The fact that Tejada was terrible AAA player while Flores would lead his team in hitting HR and RBI. Yeah that is it !!

72tilltc
72tilltc

@theglider yes he has not messed up one unless you buy the 99% back to the pitcher combacker goes to SS but this was the 1% that Murphy was supposed to take. If Murphy was gonna take it he would have been in left with a floating throw.

theglider
theglider

That was supposed to go to Murphy and Flores should have been backing up. It's ok. The kid was and still is learning. But he's not perfect, at least he wasn't there.

72tilltc
72tilltc

@theglider Look at the replay if Murphy catches it his momentum carries him away from the ball they had the same play the next night and Flores threw a seed to double up the runner.

theglider
theglider

I'll listen to the pitcher, the fielder and the manager on that. They all said it was Murphy's.

theglider
theglider

On that play Flores should not have been there. He was in the way. He's still learning how to play the position but don't think he's been perfect on double plays because he's not.

And the next night was a different batter so it was a different defense. But, with Handley Ramirez hitting, the shortstop plays the hole and the second baseman covers the base. The shortstop shouldn't get in the way.

72tilltc
72tilltc

@theglider Terry is a liar Murphy was embarrassed the pitcher wont go against Terry. Lagares was cleared to play Gee asked out of a game with 79 pitches ???? please and we have payroll flexibility.

72tilltc
72tilltc

@theglider The next night it was Kemp If you think Handley is a pull hitter you need to watch more games

theglider
theglider

So it really doesn't matter to you what those involve say because you won't believe it anyway? Everyone must be lying because if they're not then your world makes no sense to you.

Go live in your own little world and not in reality.

theglider
theglider

And not anyone involved?

So let me ask you with what you saw, there was a pull hitter up who bats right handed. Who should have been cheating towards the base? The shortstop or the second baseman?

72tilltc
72tilltc

@theglider When you play double play depth both the SS and 2nd baseman have to be close enough to turn the DP if it is hit to ss the second baseman covers and vice a versa I see you never played the position . I played both. we prefer the ss getting the ball on a comebacker because he is moving toward first. I guess if you have a super pull guy like Howard it would be the one exception. Handley Ramirez does not qualify. The players were at neutral Dp depth. If you look at the next days play with Niese on the mound Murphy again went to cover but peeled off he had no business being there either time.

theglider
theglider

Ramirez hits to the left side, not the right. The shortstops covering the hole on the left side. If Ramirez went the other way then either would have coveted, but he doesn't. He pulls the ball, a dead pull hitter. He hits it to the left 85% of the time. Murphy went to cover on the throw and Flores should gave been backing him up.

That's from Familia and Murphy, but you don't listen to what they say so what does it matter?

72tilltc
72tilltc

@theglider You don't understand what double play depth is. He hit the ball up the middle not left or right. As far as hitting the ball to the left 85% of the time that is a made up stat.