What’s on tap for Saturday, Aug. 23

The Mets look to bounce back in the second game of their three-game series against the Dodgers at 9:10 pm ET on Saturday.

Jacob deGrom (6-5, 2.87 ERA) will return form the disabled list to face Dodgers RHP Zack Greinke (12-8, 2.75 ERA).

Rafael Montero will be demoted to Triple-A before the game to make room on the roster for deGrom.


In case you missed it…

Curtis Granderson hit a leadoff home run, but the Dodgers scored five runs against Jon Niese, helped in part by two errors from Wilmer Flores, as the Mets lost, 6-2, to the Dodgers on Friday >> Read more at the New York Post, Daily News, Star-LedgerMLB.com and ESPN New York.

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Mets minor leaguer Manuel Hilario suffered a seizure after getting kneed in the head sliding into second base Friday night with the Gulf Coast League Mets. He was immediately taken to a hospital by helicopter. The Mets later said that Hilario was doing well and would be discharged Saturday.


 

Bartolo Colon was activated from bereavement leave Friday, after which Gonzalez Germen was demoted to Triple-A Vegas.




166 comments
mvmet
mvmet

In case I missed it??  Wish I did..What a waste of precious  time that game was.

cyjabeli
cyjabeli

Shouldn't be titled........" In Case you missed it.".........Should be " Sorry you saw it."

saxon
saxon

Maybe you are right, Flores may never see another season in the big leagues, but the Mets kept Tejada here after hitting .213 his first year...

theglider
theglider

This is why you can't rely on potential.  What someone does at AAA, especially in the PCL, doesn't always translate.


There are plenty of excuses made but those people don't seem to accept one distinct possibility: maybe Flores isn't a major league player.  His devotees don't seem to ever acknowledge that.

saxon
saxon

Lucas Duda's first year on the Mets...

4 homeruns, 13 RBI's...and a whopping .202 average...

Patience

sayhey24
sayhey24

Bottom line is that we need to get to the point that we are near the top of the league in either a majority of key pitching OR offensive categories in order to win. We are at the bottom of the pack offensively and in the middle of the pack pitching wise. Unless that changes, we will continue to see more of the same regardless of who is managing. The 69 and 73 Mets proved that top flight pitching could overcome limited offense, but even those teams had solid production from at least 2 of their outfielders and they were great defensively up the middle. We aren't nearly as good as those teams were.

thwacker
thwacker

We wanted to try out the young players which was OK to do.  We found out so far Flores can't field and Dekker can't hit.

hubie_wc
hubie_wc

I would just like this team to stop making defensive experiments on the ML team.  Duda in LF for several years and now Flores at SS.  I don't care what our record is, we should not be throwing away games trying out Wilmer at SS.  That's what Las Vegas is for.    We don't need our young pitchers throwing a pitch and hoping the ball isn't hit to SS.  Ridiculous.

openmind6
openmind6

@BiggieTKB

In case you missed it, this is not Flores' first two errors.

Pete Brilvitch
Pete Brilvitch

@theglider  The only way to find out if potential translates to success is to play. I wanted to see Flores play everyday and still do for the rest of the season. I never really though he was the long-term answer at short, but wanted to see what his bat was. So far, he's been disappointing and it's very possible that he's not a major leaguer (happy?). I'm still willing to give him the rest of the year to show something at the plate even though I don't want him at SS next year.

1harris1
1harris1

@theglider  Yes we do.  We just don't know that for a fact. Some of us on this site are willing to be patient with young players.


I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that Tejada is not an everyday player in the major leagues.  Something tells me I'll be waiting awhile for that one.

lindro88
lindro88

What does that mean? This team has the pitching to compete next year if they improve a couple of positions. They didn't have that when Duda was just arriving. He was also out of position. Probably not a coincidence he's hitting now that he doesn't have to play the outfield.

matmil
matmil

@sayhey24 Most of these people don't have the slightest idea what baseball was like back then. They just want to see homeruns. Don't think a team can win without a lineup full of sluggers.

matmil
matmil

They were much better defensively and fundamentally. Played to win not pad the stats. I remember a play that they set up back in 69. Johnny Callison was with Philly and they knew that he took big turns going around first. So he singles to right and Kranepool walks out in front of him to the outfield grass. Swoboda lolli gags after the ball while Grotefollows him to first. Callison makes the wide turn and Swoboda picks up the ball and fires it to Grote who tags him out. Great play, great team.

Praggy Ptl
Praggy Ptl

@thwacker This season is a waste anyways. Just let them keep playing. Give them the season. We're not going anywhere this year anyways.

surfer1
surfer1

@hubie_wc 

Until last night, Flores was a better fielder than Tejada..

lindro88
lindro88

Thank you. This notion that wins don't matter, is idiotic. I'm not saying Flores is costing us wins, but these pitchers are the core of this team.

matmil
matmil

@hubie_wc Or second, or first, or leftfield. Don't let the catcher try to throw out any base runners either.

theglider
theglider

@1harris1 He's a #8 hitter.  I don't expect a #8 hitter to bat above .230.  I do expect them to be able to field.  Tejada can.  Flores cannot.  Yet he's playing because of his potential to hit.  

saxon
saxon

@lindro88 

Simply put...it means...Our young prospects [under 26] have to be groomed...and not thrown out...

Of course we need some seasoned, proven, power hitting ball players...

sayhey24
sayhey24

I fully agree. It sickens me to see guys with no power swinging for the fences and striking out 100 times. It's all about individual stats now and the team concept is almost all but gone.

sayhey24
sayhey24

I actually remember that play. Very smart team and very accountable thanks to Mr. Hodges!

1harris1
1harris1

@lindro88  The won-loss record of this team will be no different with Tejada playing regularly, as opposed to Flores.  Mid-70's win team, finishing 4th in the division, either way,

1harris1
1harris1

@matmil @hubie_wc  Exactly.  People on this site act like we're so sound defensively, other than Flores at SS.  LOL  Yeah right, Wilmer's defense is the reason why they're a mid 70's win team.

sayhey24
sayhey24

Another thing that bothers me is the recent concept that strikeouts are no worse than other outs. In what other area of life is a 0% chance for success as good as a 30% chance for success. If you make contact there is ALWAYS a possibility of something positive happening, if you strike out their is never a realistic possibility of something good happening. And the double play argument is ludicrous. Saying that there is a risk for a double play if you make contact is like suggesting that you don't try to make contact at all with runner on first and less than 2 out.

matmil
matmil

@sayhey24 you never see that anymore. They were smart and they hustled. Grote was the best defensive catcher I have ever seen

saxon
saxon

@theglider @surfer1 @hubie_wc 

It sure would be nice to see posters understand the big picture instead of day by day... UNTIL Sandy picks up a couple of bats, we will continue to be a losing club...One day we beg for a AAA player and he does good and he's talked up and the next day he's a bust...As for MDD [27]...well, he was a good trade piece but now...value down...As for Flores [22/23] his value is way down but...but...you got to believe he can hit...Somewhere else...Still a babe in the woods..

lindro88
lindro88

It's not, but it's clear he can't play SS. I don't think any amount of offense he is capable of providing is worth the negative defensively. This teams entire future is dependent on the young pitching staff. Having terrible infield defense at 2nd and SS is really not wise.

theglider
theglider

@1harris1  He's hitting ,224.  His defense is abysmal.  Yet fans demand that he play.  OK, you've got him.  Let's see if he can cost us more games, either with his lack of batting or his glove.

theglider
theglider

@1harris1 @theglider Tejada hit .289 two years ago.  .284 the year before that.  


Yet you seem to know he's not a hitter?  how?

matmil
matmil

@sayhey24 They love their stats but somewhere they forgot what the purpose of playing the game was. To win.

sayhey24
sayhey24

Agreed. He never seemed to make a bad throw, always called a great game and was actually fairly clutch at the plate as he put the ball in play when it was called for.

1harris1
1harris1

@lindro88  I worry about the pitchers also, but we're only talking about one month remaining this season.  If they were viewing Flores as a long term solution at SS (or if it was earlier in the season when there was some hope), I'd think differently.  Our young pitchers have already had to deal with a continual lack of run support, and also poor defense at 2B and C.  They'll be okay with Flores out there at SS. 

1harris1
1harris1

@theglider @1harris1  How come you don't knock d'Arnaud, who's hitting .226, and has been brutal defensively?  Up the middle defense includes 2B and C, where they're also lacking defensively in a big way.


If only we kept Tejada out there: we might win 76 games with him playing regularly.  Wow, something to get excited about.  Think of all those games we're losing playing Flores.

Pete Brilvitch
Pete Brilvitch

@theglider @1harris1  Tejada is average at best in the field and can't hit either so what's it really costing us? If the Mets were ever serious about Flores at SS, at least this experiment should keep him from being the opening day SS next year. I always thought Flores playing was more about seeing if he can hit more than if he can play SS anyway. He's obviously been disappointing so far, but let's see what he can do for the rest of the year.

matmil
matmil

@theglider @1harris1 C'mon are you serious. A guy with no power who is always swinging for the fences. He has proved he isn't very bright.

1harris1
1harris1

@theglider @1harris1  He's done absolutely nothing for two years running.  Even for those two years you reference, how many games did he play?  It didn't exceed 140 games for either of those seasons.


Even Alderson doesn't think Tejada is a starting SS in the major leagues.  Sounds though like you have all the answers though. 

saxon
saxon

@1harris1 

We would have lost last night regardless who was playing SS...We lost by 4, not 3...I know we would have lost the last game with the A's if Flores didn't use his body to stop that SHOT to save the game...

theglider
theglider

@1harris1 @theglider 210 games in 2011 and 2012.  


He played 57 games last year.  But you'll focus on the 57 and not the 210.  

theglider
theglider

@1harris1 @matmil @theglider Everyone says he's a backup.  Why?


His glove is fine, not flashy but fine.  He's batted well as recently as two years ago and he gets on base.  


Everyone chirps about his OBP being inflated.  But shouldn't every #8 hitter also have an inflated OBP?  They don't, but shouldn't they since they also bat in front of the pitcher?


You want your #8 hitter to get on.  Tejada does.  An OBP of .353.

1harris1
1harris1

@theglider @1harris1  He played 57 games last season because he showed up to camp out of shape and was injured shortly thereafter,  Convenient of you to forget that fact.  Sounds like a real winning player.


I also asked you a question which you haven't answered.  How many games did he play for those two great years which you're so quick to reference?

matmil
matmil

@theglider @1harris1 @matmil For one thing situational hitting which is a lost art I know but it's how you win games. The kid has no power but when you need him to move a runner he flys out. When you need a sac fly he strikes out. Some things a pro baseball player has to do and he can't do them.

1harris1
1harris1

@theglider @1harris1 @matmil  His OBP doesn't translate into runs.  He's a very weak offensive player.


I also think that the game has changed.  People expect more from their shortstop offensively these days. Tejada really gives you very little.


He is a reliable defensive SS.  As I said before, I don't really dislike Tejada per se.  I just don't see him as the future with this team.

nncyel
nncyel

@1harris1 Ooh, ooh, pick me, pick me, I know the answer. 210. But what does the number of games matter?


Tejada is every bit the player that Rafael Sanatana was for the 86 Mets. His biggest problem is that he's not surrounded by the '86 Mets. theglider is correct. He's a classic #8, good defense, not much hit SS. He has a WAR of 1.1 which reflects that. Can the team do better. Sure - there are lots of better SS out there, and the Mets may be able to get one. 


By the way Flores is sporting a gaudy -0.6 WAR. That's very bad and reflects this lack of hitting and lack of defense. You at least need defense out of the SS position. Flores is not providing that.

nncyel
nncyel

@matmil @theglider @1harris1 And you know that Tejada doesn't do these things, but Rafael Santana did?


Let's see Santana had 8 SF in about 2100 plate appearances. Tejada 8 SF in about 1700 plate appearances. Looks like Tejada has a higher percentage. Oh, oh, I forgot, we can't use statistics to draw conclusions - just have to rely on your impressions. 

theglider
theglider

@1harris1 He gets on base.  If the next batter drives him in or not is all on that next hitter, usually the pitcher.


Again, you want your #8 hitter to get on, to clear the spot.  If you're looking for run production from your #8 hitter then there's a problem.

matmil
matmil

@nncyel @1harris1 no way Tejada couldn't carry Santana jock strap. And don't tell me about your stats Santana played winning ball. Tejada is playing I don't know what kind of ball.

1harris1
1harris1

@nncyel @1harris1  Ha, my man!


My point with the number of games is that Tejada didn't play enough for me to give a whole lot of credence to these two supposedly great offensive seasons his supporters are always quick to reference.


I agree with you're point about Santana, but something tells me this Met team won't be approaching '86 levels anytime soon.


And you're right about Flores.  Thus far, he's been bad.  I just believe that they should continue to run him out there and see what his bat translates to for the remainder of the season.  But you and I have debated this previously,  lol

1harris1
1harris1

@theglider @1harris1  Yes to a point, but as matmil pointed out, he doesn't hit well situationally.  Half the time he's taking these mighty swings that make you fall down laughing.  He's not a good offensive player at all.  Compare him to the other shortstops in the division.  Which one would you say he's remotely as good as? They need more offensively from SS than what he gives (imo).

nncyel
nncyel

@matmil @nncyel @1harris1 We can't use stats? Really? We just have to go by the ageless wisdom of matmil? Ok. I won't argue. You're wrong, but I won't argue.

matmil
matmil

@nncyel Thats what Tejada is worried about his stats he isn't worried about the score or what inning it is he wants his 10 homers that he will never hit.

nncyel
nncyel

@matmil @nncyel @theglider @1harris1 I'll be honest, I enjoy your posts for the most part - when I have a chance to get here and read, but I think you're wrong in this case. Santana was not a great player, neither is Tejada. But Tejada's deficiencies are more apparent on a losing team.