Today at PSL: Wilpon & Sandy watch with Wright, Ike and Granderson

Rob Brender avatarRobert Brender, MetsBlog:

Sandy Alderson and Fred Wilpon appeared to be very interested in the activity on Field 7 today. Ike Davis, David Wright and Curtis Granderson were taking batting practice. Most of the fans in attendance also swarmed to the area to view the 25 minute session…


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Granderson acknowledged all the fans who said hello before and after his moments in the cage. Wright broke away between rounds to sign autographs and Ike mixed in a few bombs while continuing to drop his hands before every swing.

67 comments
atlmetsfan
atlmetsfan

I love how writers, pundits, etc. have decided its Ike dropping his hands that is the problem. Even though he dropped his hands on every single HR and RBI of 2012, he dropped his hands on every hit he got in 2011 when he hit .302 in a shortened season. 


He's not going to completely change his hitting mechanics in one off-season, in fact a change of that magnitude won't happen in his career. The good news is its not the dropping of the hands that's the problem. His current swing is fine, he was swinging at garbage last year, which shows he was completely lost at the plate. I don't care if you have Ken Griffey's swing from 1997, if you're offering at the pitches Ike was last summer you're going to strike out all day long. 

Grove Peate
Grove Peate

Ike is showing signs of some hard work in offseason so far.In his sessions at camp I see solid contact pitch after pitch a level and shorter swing...hitting to LC and Center.alot of line drives.In 5 springs I've been here this is the best he has looked.He's listining to his coaches.

Even Grandy was showing him were to lay down a bunt.Ike listened.

hashburry
hashburry

Ike is a .220, 180K hitter who may run into some homers.  Pretty much have to live with that.  Can Wilpon just go home and make some money in real estate so he can raise the payroll?

Muhammad Khan
Muhammad Khan

I really hope n prey that Davis can bounce back. I think how Darnau and him play will help determine if this team can play "meaningful September base ball."

Bud Britton
Bud Britton

Matt, dropping his hands when? Is this part of his loading or triggering mechanism on the swing? Is he dropping his hands into the proper position to swing from or properly "slotting" his hands? Bonds, steroids not withstanding, made a decent amount of contact with this as a consistent swing ritual. As long Ike's hands are getting to a proper starting point on time and he isn't flailing at balls out of the zone, there is no problem with this hand movement. If he is dropping his hands and looping the bat head during the swing and missing balls in the zone as a result, that would be a hitch and problematic. Is his head not still and at level while his hands are moving causing a disruption in vision? Is his head locked in? Last year while he was going bad he looked like a bobble head. Which is it? Please don't channel Charlie Lau without a far more detailed explanation...

chasesimms
chasesimms

What did Wilpon and Sandy watch "With" them?   Gotta edit those headlines too. 

philj
philj

I hope Ike establishes his 40 hr form again...if dropping his hands allows for a faster swing then he will make more contact...along with this i hope he can become better at laying off the breaking balls in the dirt...i really like ike davis as a guy and i hope he steps up...if he does establish that form we do have a pretty solid lineup with the only flaw being who leads off


just wondering what are lagares slashes...if his hitting improves could he be a potential lead off guy..he has the speed if he can get on base

chasesimms
chasesimms

"while continuing to drop his hands before every swing."  


Here we go again?


aaar2d2
aaar2d2

Chuckle/facepalm of the day:  Francesa logic- Mattingly is better and more well known then Seaver and Seaver is only good to Met fans.


Bright side of day: No Drew posts..3..2..1..

Macacawitz
Macacawitz

Please, please, please, don't mention Ike in the same sentence as Henry Aaron. 

Ike's wrists aren't quick enough to compensate for the hitch.  Aside from the hitch, he completely lost the strike zone.  There were times last season when he would have been much better off just leaving the bat in the dugout and just letting the pitcher pitch while standing motionless in the batter's box.  There were countless times where he'd flail at three straight pitches several "feet" out of the strikezone.  He was so over matched he looked like he'd never played the game before.  I don't know if you can recover from that.  It was like the hitter's version of Rick Ankiel syndrome.

MetsFan1962
MetsFan1962

Dropping your hands should not matter, it is the swing follow-through that makes the difference. But, Ike is Ike and we know his swing follow-through is limited at best.

Derek Hansen
Derek Hansen

Dropping hands worked for those guys because they got in the proper hitting form in time to hit the ball. Ike drops his hands extremely low and his other movement doesnt allow him time to get into proper hitting form in time. If you watch some of his minor league tape the movement isn't as exaggerated or drastic-seemed smoother. Comparing Ike to border hall-of-famers and hall-of-famers is not going to help. A true analysis must show the comparison at all phases of the swing and where the pitchers are in their motions as well as where the ball is at the time Ike has his foot down and hands in the proper position. I agree the dropping hands thing isn't that big of a deal if you are in proper hitting form to catch up to the pitch. Ike is just not able to catch up to things on a consistent basis and on some of his home run swings you can see he is almost too out in front. His ability is not at question it is just he needs consistency and how is his swing going to translate as he gets older and slower. Barry Bonds was quicker and stronger. he could get away with his bat wiggle and dropping his hands because he still got into proper position as is evident by his overall numbers, not just power numbers. Ike hits mistakes and maybe gets lucky. His ability to hit breaking stuff is not good. I want the best for him, but he is going to have to make sure he gets into the right position before the ball gets to the plate even if he wants to spin around and due a jump kick.

Brandon Hillman
Brandon Hillman

Check out replays of ralph kiners swing on youtube. Also drops hands. 

Mark
Mark

All you "hitch" complainers out there go youtube Barry Bonds swing mechanics in slow motion. He had a bigger hitch than Ike (steroids had nothing to do with his timing on his swing).  You can be successful with a hitch if your timing and drive through the ball are on.

Joe De Sr.
Joe De Sr.

But no one leaves their seat,at home or the ball park when Ike comes to bat!!

carno
carno

Its very simple- he has an enormous hitch in his swing where he drops his hands before they go back and he gets beat on EVERY fast ball inside. Im in awe they let him do it after his failures

Joe Wenzel
Joe Wenzel

@Bud Britton I agree he should have expounded on his dropping the hands comment - it's not like it costs him anything to do so.

hashburry
hashburry

@Bud Britton  You lost me at Matt.  Using Bonds as an example of someone who dropped his hands to make a case that Ike can drop his hands as part of "triggering" or whatever is useless.  You can't compare anyone to Bonds, steroids or not.  It's not even worth going into how good he was and how bad Ike's swing is.  He had some success before pitchers saw him, and now he doesn't stand a chance of being more than a .230 hitter with a massive number of strike outs.

billysuede
billysuede

@Bud Britton  what is the connection between steroids and batting mechanics? one has nothing to do with the other. 

Kevin Connelly
Kevin Connelly

@aaar2d2  no shot. Mike is very Mets-fan friendly, probably more so than to the Yankees. In the baseball spectrum, Mike is as fair as they come as much as I hate to say it. 

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@aaar2d2 That is why i stopped listening to francesca. THough the underbelly of Mongo's and Zauns on twitter almost, almost has me listening just to hear them call to annoy him to no end. Almost, then I see a comment like this that comes out of that buffoons mouth and i remember why i stopped.

Joe De Sr.
Joe De Sr.

Aaron..He played in a little league sized ball park.Bonds would have had a 1000 hrs there!!!

Brandon Hillman
Brandon Hillman

@Macacawitz I agree, but I think that goes back to him worrying to much about his swing at the plate, instead of thinking about what the situation was, how the pitcher would try to get him out, and pitch recognition. Going back to original hitting mechanics might put him at the right frame of mind and concentrating on what he should be concentrating on. Simply, see the ball hit the ball. Go with what is natural.

aaar2d2
aaar2d2

@MetsFan1962 I think it's fair to say when we all watch him hit, he looks clueless on the 2 strike curveball that we all know is coming in the dirt. That I hope is something he works on.

SaltyGary
SaltyGary

@Mark A better example to use is Bagwell. He split his legs wide and had a hitch. The difference is the hitch is quicker and his bat speed is quicker. 

SaltyGary
SaltyGary

@Mark Bond's hitch was much smaller than Ike. Plus Ike's legs are so split so it forces him to use all of his upper body to generate his power. Which is fine if he wasn't moving his arms from shoulder to waist back to shoulder. Instead standing is such an nonathletic position and having so many movements to get the bat around sets him up completely for failure. Also his bat speed is not even close to Bond's the comparisons don't really work. 

Mark
Mark

If that's not a good example because he used steroids, look at Hank Aaron he too dropped his hands even though it wasn't as pronounced as Ike's.  Pretty successful hitter.  The problem with baseball today is everyone wants cookie cutter hitters and pitchers with the same mechanics.  What makes you successful might not work out for me and make me as successful.  

Joe De Sr.
Joe De Sr.

Wow .U must be able to see the future! When will the End of the world come!

William Bonilla
William Bonilla

Supposedly he is a decent pitcher lol....not mlb caliber but he does know how to pitch lol

Macacawitz
Macacawitz

@Brandon Hillman His collapse was on multiple levels with pitch recognition being the biggest problem.  The hitch in your swing is not even an issue when you're consistently swinging at pitches a foot out of the strike zone.  When he was recalled they told him to just stand there and force the pitcher to throw strikes.  He did walk a little more but really showed no signs of getting himself together as a hitter. 

billysuede
billysuede

@Mark  what does taking steroids have to do with batting mechanics?

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@Mark Hitch, smitch.... If he can't hit the ball he can't hit the ball, Ike davis hasn't shown the ability in his professional career to consistently hit a baseball at an acceptable MLB level.

Michael McDermott
Michael McDermott

@Mark The problem with your argument is not that Bonds used steroids, or Aaron had a hitch in his swing 40-50 yrs ago... the problem with your agument is that you're comparing Ike Davis to 2 of the ALL-TIME GREATS (Bonds had 3 MVPs even before the steroids). Ike was never -- and never will be -- as talented as those guys. So it doesn't matter who you compare him to, it matters whether he can manage to hit his weight at the big league level (something he has yet to prove).

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@Mark @SaltyGaryIf they don't allow him to face a lefty he can be successful. If they continue to allow him to embarrass himself against lefties... then he will not be successful.

Mark
Mark

@SaltyGary @Mark  his success is not out of the realm of possibility.  That's all I have been trying to say, but you all focus on the negatives.

SaltyGary
SaltyGary

@Mark That is part of the problem, his success is largely weighted towards the beginning of his career when he was an unknown. Between scouting and and the bad habits he has picked in his swing he is in a situation where his career is on the line.I just don't foresee him in the major's past next season. 

Mark
Mark

@SaltyGary @Mark  Everyone's argument against the hitch would hold more weight for me if he never had any type of success hitting.  He did well his first year, got of to a great start his second (ankle injury), did good second half of his third, stunk it up his fourth.  There is more than 50% of his career mired in success and less than that in failure.

SaltyGary
SaltyGary

@MarkLook at the video's. None of them are as pronounced as Ike's plus he has such a long and slow swing it does no good as a timing mechanism. Wright has a hitch and when he is hitting his best his hitch actually gets longer and he sprays the balls around the field. With Ike it's not just the hitch (which is bad for him) it's the leg position and slower bat speed that make it a perfect mess. 

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@Mark @Mark Kelly   That is not educating me on statistics. What your saying is out of 1000 possible solutions where 998 of them lead to failures, there is a shot ike can be successful. Basically your saying Being successful with a hitch is akin to winning the lottery. Sure it could happen, but take your ticket to the bank and see if they give you loan contingent on having a chance.


Obviously Ike can be successful, and has a some sort of success at the MLB level. The likely outcome is based on wonderful statistics, he will fail miserably and be a disaster.. if this was 2012, I'd be right with you on the Ike could turn it around bandwagon... Heck even at the start of last year after his strong 2nd half... Unfortunatly he's got a track record of not being successful. 


I don't root for him to fail, i've just resigned myself to the fact that Ike Davis will likely not be a good MLB 1st baseman.


Actually if you play to his strengths (which there are feelings they will not) and not allow him to face a lefty His career numbers are very very acceptable .256/.356/.471 for .827 OPS... Additionally 55 of his career 67 HR's or 82% are off Righties. Even last year, his numbers against righties while bad weren't as putrid as his numbers against lefties.

Mark
Mark

@Mark Kelly  Now let me educate you on statistics.  If in a group you have the possibilities of multiple outcomes then guess what no one outcome will eliminate the possibilities of the others.   No matter how much it may out weigh the other outcomes.  So just because you can find 1000 videos of unsuccessful players with a hitch it does not eliminate the possibility of Ike's success with his.  As I stated in my original post Ike can have success with the hitch we just have to wait and see if he will.

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@Mark @Mark KellyNo but you said Ike has a hitch but so did these 2 guys who were successful. I can probably scower YouTube for days and find 1000's of guys who are horrifically unsuccessful with a hitch, to counter your argument that a hitch isn't good, and because some SUPREMELY gifted guys were successful with said problem were successful isn't evidence that it isn't a problem for someone like ike.


I have no problem with a hitch. Same as i have no problem with a bat wiggle like Strawberry had. Whatever works for you is what works. Unfortunatly for IKE whatever he is doing... isn't very successful.


I care that Ike isn't a very good hitter other than half of his MLB AB's. To clear that last sentence up..> He's utterly clueless for half, and in the other Half he actually looks like an MLB player.

Mark
Mark

@Mark Kelly @Mark  Exactly you proved my point.  Did I state once in my "comparison" of the hitches that Ike was going to be the same type of hitter or did I preface and end my comment with how a person can be successful with a hitch?

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@Mark @Mark KellyI don't get that comment. You have issue with the fact that I find the Tom Brady going down a water slide picture screaming like a 13 year old girl forever funny means i can't say Ike Davis can't hit a baseball at an acceptable MLB level?


this coming from the guy who's comping his hitch to 2 hall of fame and in their lifetimes best players of their generations to prove that he might be ok.. 


And additionally your profile pic is a giants hat. with a flat brim and what still looks like the stupid i just bought this stickers still attached. 


What is your point.

Michael McDermott
Michael McDermott

@Mark @Michael McDermottI interpreted your argument just fine... the thing is it comes down to the fact that you're comparing him to 2 of the best hitters in baseball history... and when you say "as of now, who knows" I think we all know pretty well that Ike Davis is NOT going to turn out to be Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron. Can you argue with that logic? (I'm guessing you'll find a way).

Mark
Mark

@Michael McDermott @Mark  The problem is your interpretation of my argument.  I was not nor am I saying that Ike is in the class of those two players as a hitter (as of now, who knows).  What I am stating is the success of players who have had a hitch to everyone who bi***es and moans about Ike's.  If I were to use two inferior players you all would then say "That's why Ike sucks and will never achieve success".  It's not about ending with a hall of fame career, it's about the ability to have success with his swing all due to the fact that it is based on his timing.  But alas, most METS fans are pessimistic and ignorant and can only complain and not try to look for the positives or possibilities.