Screen shot 2014-03-03 at 6.47.14 AM

The day in Noah Syndergaard

Noah Syndergaard made a terrific first impression in his first spring game, giving up one hit in two scoreless innings Monday, while simultaneously impressing the Braves.

“I didn’t know anything about the kid coming into today, but I sure won’t forget his name now,” Braves C Ryan Doumit told reporters. “You can add that guy to the list of young power arms that they have coming up. It’s pretty impressive. He obviously came in ready to compete.”

Syndergaard is expected to begin the season in Triple-A. Similar to how Sandy Alderson handled Matt Harvey and Zack Wheeler, Syndergaard will likely be promoted this summer after the estimated Super 2 deadline, which will keep him from reaching salary arbitration after two full seasons.

“He takes stuff seriously,” Terry Collins said after the game (Daily News, Mar. 4). “He is not joking around. He didn’t joke around even when he came out of the game.”

Matthew Cerrone, Lead Writer

Look, you know the drill, we’ve been through it with Harvey and we’ve been through it with Wheeler. You know this front office and how they view value today as opposed to value tomorrow. Syndergaard is going to go through the same. He’s not going to make the team out of spring training. Yet, there will still be fans and media that insist Syndergaard should be on the Opening Day roster.

For what it’s worth, pretty much every team in baseball is doing the same with their top, can’t-miss prospects. In the last few years, the Rays delayed Evan Longoria, the Reds did it with Jay Bruce, the Giants held back Buster Posey, and the Nationals held back Bryce Harper, not to mention Alderson with Wheeler and Harvey. Basically, it guarantees the player is under team control longer and it puts off their eventual pay day, which means more financial flexibility in the short term. I’m sure the Yankees would do the same… if they had any top prospects worth promoting.


In the Daily News, Andy Martino explains how cursing at his coach impressed the organization >> Read More

Syndergaard is ready, says Jared Diamond in the Wall Street Journal, but the young pitcher admits there are things he still needs to improve on in Triple-A >> Read More

According to Bob Klapisch of the Bergen Record, Syndergaard is similar to Harvey, in weapon and demeanor >> Read More

Collins believes Syndergaard is going to be special, reports Tim Rohan in the New York Times >> Read More




40 comments
bigdirty
bigdirty

I think it would be best to have Thor get some work in the AAA. There is no reason to rush him. he will be up eventually and let him get some work in and develop a third and fourth pitch. There are going to be more expectations on him than their were for harvey and surprisingly Wheeler when he comes up. I would rather him have his repotoire ready for that. This season is going to be about his development but lets not start the season off with that. 


I also dont think the Mets pitching staff is lacking options in the #5 spot. Thats the biggest reason why its ok to have him at AAA. I think from Dice k, Lannan and especially Mejia, the #5 spot has 3 viable candiadates. If Dice K is the pitcher he was at teh end of last year, he can really help. I have always liked John Lannan and having another lefty in the rotation could be real solid. Mostly though I want to see mejia. he showed termendous poise last year when he did pitch and was succesfull. He is very young and could be a diamond in the rough for this team. 


Finally, I dont blame any MLB team for waiting on talent and saving a year of paying them big money. The Mets this year dont have a real reason to bring up Noah early and why not spread out the big paydays for harvey, Wheeler and Noah. 

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

I just read the last dig a the Yanks.  Um....this reads like a 12 year old kid making a bad joke.  If you're going to pick on a team, why is it big brother that has been better then us in every way the last decade?

Jeff Robins
Jeff Robins

Not only does delaying extend the team control, but it gives Syndergaard and Montero additional development experience AND approximates the trade deadline. If they both pitch well in AAA, it will open up all kinds of possibilities at the deadline to trade for a much needed positional player.

Mr. SERCH
Mr. SERCH

even if he doesnt give up a run in spring, i'd still rather have him start in AAA. First off, he needs to work on his 3rd and 4th pitch. Everything you read on him says that. MLB vets will learn him and start teeing off on him after a couple of go 'rounds. If at least his change up isnt more developed, it may stunt his overall growth. 


Plus, pitching in the hitter friendly PCL and specifically in Las Vegas is good for his psyche---he needs to learn how to handle and adapt on the mound if he starts to get smacked around. It's better that he learns that in AAA than in the pros where we're trying to "win 90 games" ....on the flip side, if he dominates down there, much like Montero did after a short adjustment period, that will ALSO be good for him too, as he builds confidence knowing he can shut you down in the thin Vegas air.


It's not all about how talented he is, there's a mental side of it too. Our rotation is really the least of my worries this year. We have enough depth and talent to keep this kid on the right track in AAA for a whole 2.5 months....be patient, err on the side of caution, and let him grow and develop the way he's supposed to. Soon enough, we'll all be watching him drop the hammer in Queens


side note...my God...we have SO MUCH PITCHING...i feel montero and noah will live up to their potential and then some. Now you HOPE harvey has a full recovery and is back to his normal self. Wheeler will develop and take the next step up this year...Gee matured and is a better pitcher, Niese is a fine #3 with days where he looks like an ace...then you got Mejia, de Gromm (who looked good Friday!) and to an extent, Colon (whom i think will be traded at some point)....we should be able to make a trade for literally anyone we want with pitching talent like that, and STILL be able to put a well above average rotation out on the field. I've never been so pumped about Mets future!

cj1786
cj1786

The real truth is Syndergaard has only pitched what 50 innings above A ball in his career?  I know everyone always thinks everything is about the money and the super 2 and all that BS but the guy, while very talented, has very very little experience.  He belongs in AAA, no matter what his contract situation is. 

mets2891
mets2891

Matt, I hate the Yankees as much as anybody, but please, we can only dream of having their success.  Ownership that actually wants to win?  What a concept.

eric88
eric88

That's why the Mets NEVER win Rookie of the Year, we don't have a Rookie for a Year.

Rafael Nodarse
Rafael Nodarse

I just don't understand why the rush. The Mets are not going to win this year, but next season we will have two power arms coming to rotation, adds Montero too, plus more experienced Lagares and TDA. 2015 is the year FO  better put together not just a good team, but a great one.

togajb2136
togajb2136

Both Longoria and Harper were brought up in April and Bruce was brought up in May.   They may have been delayed for service time reasons, but those teams did not avoid the possibility of Super Two.  Pretty big difference.  


Although I'm not sure how it effected Harper as he signed a ML deal and was added to the 40-man directly out of the draft.

thebeast
thebeast

The only teams that hold there players back due to Super 2 are small market, low spending teams. Yankees would never hold someone back over money/eligibility. Neither would the Phillies, Cubs, etc. If its about fielding the best team possible. Super 2 eligibility should never even come up.

tullydew
tullydew

Funny thing is I could swear the Marlins added a 20 year old SP to the opening day roster last year. I even recall him getting CY Young votes.

Maybe I'm wrong, my memory isn't what it used to be.

Christopher Masiello
Christopher Masiello

I don't think it's terrible to keep him down for the first two (COLD) months. He's and Montero will both be here soon enough. If you think that Niese (recent injury), Gee (recent surgery), and the old guy that gets the 5th spot (OOOOOLD) are going to make 35 starts each, you're nuts. Did I mention Bart-OLD-o Colon?

They will start 8 - 10 different guys this year. Take that to the bank. 

Best case scenario is that Bartolo gets off to a fast, healthy start. This way, if they're good, he's the horse. If they're bad, BOOM - here come a few young bats from a desperate contender.

Kenneth Meltsner
Kenneth Meltsner

Yes, the Yankees are painfully thin at top prospects. But they will be playing meaningful ball in August and September, not playing-out the string. We Met fans will be watching guys like Dice-K, John Lanaan, Shawn Marcum, Aaron Laffey and Miguel Batista in front of thousands of spectators dressed like empty seats. It's all about economics. But I can't help thinking they'd sell a great deal more tickets fieldign a team the fans might actually WANT TO SEE. Just hoping we see Thor at Citifield sooner rather than later.

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

Reign it in Matt - our top prospect threw two scoreless innings in a meaningless first start of Spring Training.

There's nothing wrong with Thor starting in the minors.  He's on a limited innings count this year and still has some issues polish before he's ready (curveball, and change).

hankypanky
hankypanky

It's only the unpopular choice with the ding-dongs on this blog. Forgetting the business angle for a moment, it's important that Syndergaard continues to mature and polish his skills on the farm before he comes up.

metfan
metfan

I don't know that this is the right move because of the money, that shouldn't be why we make this move or don't make this move.  We should make this move because of what gives us the best chance to win both this year and beyond.  So far we have seen 2 innings of the kid against a true major league opponent, so I have no problem with him being a long shot to make the team right now, we have a good starting rotation, but if he turns out to be one of the best 5 pitchers for April then he should be on the team.

Starz31
Starz31

I know it's not the popular choice, but this is the right move. The team gains much more value by this process and it's not chump change. And when you're dealing with Noah being our 3rd top young pitcher in as many years, you have to be able to afford the two pitchers preceding him. By extending the team control over each of them, it allows the team the flexibility to maximize the amount of time all three of these guys can pitch below market value for the team. That's very important as this team begins to make moves in the standings in the next few years when they will need to add more pieces to the puzzle. 

eric88
eric88

@Mr. SERCH   Some good points. Why with pitching at every level and much more knocking on the door than you even mentioned, why Tejada, Davis, Duda still here again? Why will this GM never make a trade for positional prospects in AA-AAA. He has NEVER made a trade except when dumping a Vet in his walk year.{Pagan, Beltran, Dickie, Byrd}.

eric88
eric88

@cj1786  This is the Mets, stop drinking the Kool Aid. No rookie EVER makes this club out of spring training unless you count 31 year old rookies like Scott Rice. It's ALWAYS about money with the Mets.

eric88
eric88

@cj1786   Yes, for a normal prospect. Not for one with control, "a curveball from hell", and a 98 mph fastball. How would Las Vegas help? Because of the environment in the PCL, you know he is going to overthrow and overuse his fastball.

tullydew
tullydew

Jose Fernandez pitched 0 innings above A ball in his minor league career. He was on the Marlins opening day roster last year.

How did that work out?

mets2891
mets2891

@eric88 The only reason I'm not going crazy about this is that Syndergaard is on a fixed innings limit, so it's probably better to have him pitch 4 or 5 innings a AAA start and then bring him up for the 2nd half anyway.

Starz31
Starz31

@Rafael Nodarse  Three power arms, no? Four with Montero. Although one of these pitchers may not be on the team anymore (Traded for a bat).

metslaw
metslaw

@tullydew Why would you look at the Marlins at the way to do things?

Opti-Mets-tic
Opti-Mets-tic

A very well placed shot at the Yanks. +1 for the shot, -1 for your comment. Bring back the downvote.

completely
completely

@Starz31  Totally. Just can't expect anyone to care about the results of games or attend them when fielding the best available roster so obviously isn't top priority.

Starz31
Starz31

@eric88 @Mr. SERCH  Because there were't any deals worth giving up talented young, valuable, pitching. You saw what happened with Harvey, you just don't want to give up pitching talent unless you can add an impact bat. And I don't think there was an impact bat available that warranted us giving someone up. Also, when we get closer to contention, this may be eased.

And on the flipside of the Harvey injury, sometimes you do want to trade high on a young player who's value hasn't been negatively impacted by injury or failure. It's a complicated issue. I just see it as a dart board. You really do want to throw as many good darts as you can because they wont all score you points.

Mr. SERCH
Mr. SERCH

@eric88 @Mr. SERCH  lol i know...funny u said that, i was just discussing that exact scenario with my cousin. Sandy hasn't made any impact trades yet, in terms of us getting someone that can contribute right now. I think he was trying to really evaluate what he has, and the plan was to trade the Gee's and Niese's of this team, and go young/cheap with a rotation of Harvey, Wheeler, Thor, and Montero. Then we can rotate the 5th starter. Then, by the time that THAT is our rotation, we'll have a clearer picture of what Darnaud is gonna bring, along with Puello (whom i think will be our RF next year) and Nimmo, further strengthening our team, while keeping them young and cheap. THENNNNNN he'll be able to make a trade for someone who is making $18-$25 million, and seemlessly add them to the team, while not drastically increasing payroll.


So i would expect some sort of mid season trade this year if we're in contention OR if a player is available that previously wasn't. And i am also expecting another trade after this season. 

It's trite to say, but i'll say it anyway---wait til next year. I think 2015 is the REAL year we get a VERY competitive team, we trim the fat by jettisoning players who have no future with us, while adding LEGIT major league talent from our farm, and supplementing that with a big trade and free agent signing.



Starz31
Starz31

@tullydew  The Marlins rushed him. And on a team infamous for avoiding big contracts, they are more intent on maximizing the amount of time the team gets with the young player at a cheap rate before they have to trade him. 

Also, the Marlins. He was their only bright spot all of last season on a team that cleaned out their roster one year after promising their fans they wouldn't.

eric88
eric88

@tullydew   Great, because he is not a typical prospect, like Thor.

Starz31
Starz31

@completely It's just not that simple, tho. He hasn't pitched a full year in AAA, not that he needs a full year, but he could certainly benefit from working on some of his off-speed pitches for a couple of months. He's not going to be able to throw all fastballs all the time. And he will be a much more complete pitcher when that change up comes together (his curveball is already a plus pitch). Add all that to the smart business plan for delaying his promotion and I think they are fielding the best roster. 

If the rest of the roster was complete, I would argue with you. But I just feel like this isn't going to hurt the team that much this season. Pitching won't be our weakness. 

mets2891
mets2891

@eric88 @mets2891 But better to stretch him out for the whole summer than to either have him pitch 5 innings each start or shut him down in August.

Starz31
Starz31

@sylow59 @Starz31 @strato  That's not a small number. And good point on the innings limit, it really doesn't make sense to waste a year of control on a player who can't pitch past september anyways. On the flipside, his innings would be all ML innings, as opposed to much less ML innings with a start in AAA. But I do believe he will benefit from adding some additional AAA innings to his experience. 

sylow59
sylow59

@Starz31 @strato

Every team does this.  The Cards even toyed with the idea of starting CMart in the minors "to stretch him out" while not picking up MLB service time. 

What they don't seem to grasp is that he is on an innings limit this year, so why blow a year of control for really no reason.  Toby did a write up on this (he or over at AA) and determined they'd save a year and $20M.

completely
completely

@Starz31 @strato  That's cool, and we agree that the organization is clearly looking at the benefit to the team (and specifically the payroll obligations of ownership) in the next few years and prioritizing that over this one. And that's a defensible strategy.


Less defensible is pursuing that strategy while continuing to lie to everybody (I know, nothing new there), both directly and by implication, about your intentions in the meantime. @strato is right - it's treating it as a forgone conclusion that Syndergaard will open the year in the minors while also talking 90 wins that doesn't compute.

Starz31
Starz31

@strato  But the team's benefit in the next few years is much more important and valuable than simply having him pitch for two and half extra months at the beginning of the season. This will allow the team to have greater financial flexibility when they will need to add salary to the roster for important pieces and/or locking up their other young players. They obviously are being frugal with their money but I'm fine with that because they are waiting to spend money on the right fits instead of just throwing money around like they used to do which got them in this mess in the first place. 

strato
strato

@Starz31 @completely But according to Sandy Alderson, this team is going to win 90 games. Shouldn't they then have the best players on their roster from day one?

What if he is the best pitcher on the team in spring training? In that case, if the team is serious about this year as Sandy contends, every game is important and he should be here. But he won't. And it won't be about his development and maturity and all of the other hoakum they will offer as an excuse. It will be about the money,  clear and simple, because that is just what they are