Terry Collins is not happy about being just 37-44

The 2014 season is exactly half over and the Mets are on pace to win just 74 games for the third-consecutive season.

“We’re not going to make any excuses, we’re not happy about it,” manager Terry Collins said Saturday, in regards to being 37-44. “We’re hanging in there. We have like 15 games before the break. Let’s go 10-5 and then, coming out of the break, everybody will be rested, let’s take off after that.”


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170 comments
Michael Marinelli
Michael Marinelli

Good for him... at least he gets paid to watch this crap team, unlike the rest of us who have to pay for the "honor" of doing so.


Pat Brady
Pat Brady

Well at least Collins has a plan. It sounds like a good one too "lets go 10-5 over the next 15." I just wonder why he didn't think of that plan 15 games ago though :-/

Patrick LeGrady
Patrick LeGrady

I would assume from the $29MM they are no longer paying Alex Rios and Jake Peavy with....

Matt Cooper
Matt Cooper

Its NY. Where did chicago get that money from?

Russell Jake Neustadt
Russell Jake Neustadt

Do you see the numbers Jose Abreu is putting up? Sheesh. The White Sox clearly did their research.

pcubed
pcubed

I realized something about Sandy that I don't think many others have. Before this realization, I was a defender of Sandy and thought the problem was trickling down from the Wilpons. 


We are assuming that the Wilpons are cheap with no clear indication that they this is not Sandy's doing. 

New York is a big market club, where we watched them succeed with a large payroll, UNDER THE WILPONs. Sandy Alderson is the guy who has the moneyball strategy coming from a small market team in the Oakland A's. Of course this strategy can work, but being a fan of the New York Mets, we are used to a high payroll and Sandy's philosophy, although it has shown to work (in Oakland), is NOT a good fit for a New York team.


In conclusion, I have now changed my perspective on this payroll issue and who to "blame." We can't bash the Wilpon's completely - I believe that this the majority of "not spending" is due to Sandy and his strategy of playing moneyball.

Rich Kluender
Rich Kluender

He has Nothing to say because he is part of the problem

mystere24
mystere24

Realistic report card of the first half of the season:

RIGHT SIDE OF INFIELD: Grade B - Murphy batting .300 and at/near the top of the league in hits despite being a horrible base runner and mediocre fielder. Duda establishes himself as a starter on pace for 25 HR/.250 BA/.800 OPS, more aggressive, driving in runs, and playing reasonable defense at first.

LEFT SIDE OF INFIELD: Grade D - Wright significantly underperformed offensively and Tejada, while having rebounded from a dismal April, is still not a starting SS in MLB.

CATCHER: Grade F - Only the a mets can have the best hitting prospect at a position in MLB and have him come up and bat below .200 and get demoted to AAA.

OUTFIELD: Grade D-- Chris Young is a bust, Granderson is hot and cold, Lagares can't stay on the field, EY just isn't that good, and Captain Kirk and the rest of the Red shirts have a short leash indeed.

STARTING ROTATION: Grade B - Kept the Mets on a lot of games, especially Gee and Niese (ironically the two most discussed as trade bait). Colon has been about what we could expect, not an ace, but serviceable, Wheeler has been inconsistent just like he was last year and just like he may always be, Montero failed, DeGrom has looked poised and could be a future middle of the rotation starter tops, and Thor lost his hammer.

BULLPEN: Grade C - April was an F, but the cast of characters have rounded into shape once Lannan, Rice, Valverde and Farnsworth were demoted or released after blowing about a half dozen wins for us. Mejia's days as a starter are over but hopefully his days as a closer or strong 8th inning guy are here. Familia has been an upside surprise, Torrres and Dice-K have shouldered much of the burden, and even Edgin has done reasonably well.

Does this team have the makings of a pennant contender as constituted? No way. Can it be a .500 team? Maybe if Harvey returns strong next year and we address LF. And SS with real ML hitters.

ken1010
ken1010

Collins is to major league managers what Tejada is to major league starting shortstops.

Mark Martelli
Mark Martelli

If there are 15 games left, plan on losing at LEAST 10 and probably more like 12

HLMFitz
HLMFitz

@MikeSilvaMedia he should be thankful. I'm pretty sure the Mets have worst record in baseball since May 1. Or very close to it.

qualcomm
qualcomm

I'm confused, why do they keep expecting more wins out of similar teams?  Sandy assembles a yet another variation of the exact same team, same manager, everyone producing career average numbers etc... am I missing something? All the players who have upside are countered with just as many who have likely downsides; the probability states the results will be similar.

I thought we were getting intellectuals in here, but I'm starting to miss Omar. 


theglider
theglider

So here's my question; we're at 37 wins now. How many, realistically, should we have?

eric88
eric88

Remember, the Mets started 15-11 mostly on new season enthusiasm, they really weren't playing well. That said, Terry is 22-33 since then! However it is OK, Sandy, that great evaluator says Terry is doing a good job??? So don't forget, we still have the famous Terry second half crash coming and allot of opponents still with something to play for. 70 WINS.

David Rivera
David Rivera

Perhaps he'd be happier watching that crap on the TV like the rest of us. 

gpopper
gpopper

Collins is a joke. Period. No more needs to be said.

TheJMan
TheJMan

Terry Collins stinks ...regardless of the talent they have or don't have

because this is an 85-win team with another manager

And TC will manage whomever he has right to where he's capable -- under .500

His teams do not overachieve EVER

His teams have been marked by inconsistency and errors and mental mistakes and running themselves out of ballgames

You'd think a guy who had average talent would demand and strive for one thing: execution

he stinks

Marc Seldin
Marc Seldin

Fred: "We got Abreu! What are you talking about?" lol

sickofit
sickofit

In '69 the Mets made one small move that changed the history of the franchise. They picked up Donn Clendenon to platoon with Kranepool at first base. It was a small move, but when Clendenon was in the lineup he came through. He killed lefties and turned the team's fortunes around. I really believe we have the pitching to stay in this thing if we could just add a little offense and it wouldn't take much. A right handed power bat to share first with Duda who has one extra base hit vs lefties and suddenly you have 40 homers out of the position instead of the 20 you're gonna get now, plus have a right handed threat (which we don't have now) to come off the bench when facing a righty starter. One move could fill both needs. We need to score a little more. A small move like this just might have us playing meaningful baseball in September and put a few more fannies in the seats which also always helps the team when you're playing at home. Of course we would also need Wright to be Wright when he returns from his little rest. I think at this stage meaningful baseball in September would keep a lot of us who bleed orange and blue happy and it would be something to build on. And it might get me out to the park a little more often. In fact it definitely would.

xplr
xplr

What sandy says: we have payroll flexibility

What sandy means: we will be cutting payroll again. Get ready for more 40 year old washed up players at the league minimum.

p8erbaghad
p8erbaghad

Sandy Alderson has never played moneyball.  It was Billy Beane that played moneyball after Alderson left.  Alderson had one of the highest payrolls back in the days with the A's.  He hasn't done jack when his budget got cut.

ken1010
ken1010

@theglider Fansworth, Valverde being used as closers by Collins probably cost us four or five games, and that plus other Collins moves are probably the reason we are below the .500 record predicted by our run differential.  We are squandering opportunities.

dooley
dooley

@theglider I am glad you asked this question; it gave me the opportunity to become acquainted to some unfamiliar statistics. According to baseball-reference, our Pythagorean Win/Loss record should be 41-40.

dooley
dooley

Based on run differential we have a +2 (scored 318, allowed 316). I don't know how to translate that into wins, but the statistic would probably indicate that we have a worse record than we should. Also, Oakland is running away from the pack with an unbelievable +146. The Angels are second with close to +60

cleonsvan
cleonsvan

@theglider  You realize they will trade Colon and Murphy before the deadline. They are a team of perpetual prospects--always highlighting the bright future that never arrives.

theglider
theglider

An 85 win team? On the course of this year they've lost

Their ace pitcher, another starter, their closer, three outfielders, their catcher and now their third baseman.

They also had Farnsworth and Valverde in the bullpen and Montero as a starter.

We're lucky we've won this many.

dooley
dooley

To be fair we really won't know for some time who the better GM is, Alderson (whose first wave of draft picks haven't hit the majors yet) or Minaya who is now operating with a similar payroll to ours in San Diego

qualcomm
qualcomm

@sickofit They also didn't have 2014 distractions, an unsupportive ownership, a weak manager and most of their innings were thrown by in-prime ace-like pitchers. 

hankypanky
hankypanky

What do you want to give up for a real power hitter? Harvey and Gee? Wheeler and Niese?

tonyny
tonyny

@ifti99 Have you looked at the Yankees lately? Arguably the most free-spending franchise in the history of baseball, and their lineup is full of exactly that, 40 year old washed up players. And they can't score runs either.

I'm not saying the Wilpons' budgetary concerns have no bearing on this, but there's a lot more going on here than cheap owners. Look, I'd like to have an impact bat too, but how may of them were really out there this winter? And how many are out there now? 

Look around the league. Home runs are down.  Strikeouts are up.  I'd love to have another Strawberry or Piazza or even Delgado too, but more and more, this kind of hitter is getting to be a rarity in MLB. If he were easy to come by given a big enough wallet, then Cashman would've snatched him up by now. And so far, he hasn't.

There's no simple solution here, no easy answer. That's part of why it's so depressing.

Pat Brady
Pat Brady

@p8erbaghad I think you're partially wrong there. They DID have a very high payroll but then they had to cut it drastically. I think THAT is where the moneyball aspect came from. I think it was Alderson's concept and it was executed well by Beane. 

John Kranzley
John Kranzley

KIRK NIEUWENHUIS

You have the power hitter right in front of your nose and can't see it

ken1010
ken1010

@tonyny @ifti99

When there is a player out there, who perfectly fills a need and fits your system, you have to sign him.  

Choo was that player last year, and the Mets didn't sign him because of cost.  Is Texas stupider than the Mets for having signed him.  No.  That's the spending part of the equation.  

It's not the whole equation, but if we had spent the money on Hawkins, Byrd and Choo, even with TC we'd probably be over .500 and near first place, instead of down here in last.

qualcomm
qualcomm

@tonyny The Yankees are at 200 million and have nothing to work with.  We have championship pitching on the cheap and can't capitalize on it because we can't spend even half what they do.

If we went to 100 million this offseason, we'd be ahead by 10 games. It's hard to swallow. 

tonyny
tonyny

@ken1010 @tonyny @ifti99 Shin-Soo Choo is having a lousy year in Texas so far. He's batting .243 with a .367 OBP this season, and Ron Washington (Rangers' manager) has been moving him around in the lineup trying to find a better place for him, since he has not been performing as expected in the leadoff role.  I just read a piece online in the Dallas Morning News (can't link it here, but I'm sure you could find it with Google, since that's how I found it) discussing this at length.  Choo was doing badly as a leadoff hitter, so he was moved to third, where he fared no better (worse, actually). Now they're moving him back to first, a move the article admits is change for change's sake, something neither Washington nor Choo have a lot of faith in, but the team feels they need to do *something*.

Baseball is like this.  There are no guarantees.  And, by the way, if we had Choo in left right now, we would not have Eric Young Jr., whose record this year has been similar to Choo's, except that EY has 21 stolen bases to Choo's 3.  And Choo plays half his games at Globe Life Park, which is the 11th best hitter's park in MLB, compared to Citi Field, which is second to last at #29. All those facts considered, I think I'd have to conclude that EY has been better for the Mets this year than Choo has been for the Rangers. And we all know the statistics about how the Mets do (Win-Loss wise) with EY vs. without EY.  All that considered, you're still prepared to claim that we'd have won 10 more games this year if we had Choo and not Young? At best, I think that conclusion is a stretch.

As to Hawkins and Byrd, I'm more sympathetic to your argument because those guys have both proven they could be an asset to this Mets team.  But now that Grandy seems to be coming around, I feel Byrd's loss less and less, and as to Hawk, well, yeah, he was probably an upgrade over Valverde, but we're doing find in the bullpen now without either of them; I'd rather put that money to better use.

tonyny
tonyny

@qualcomm Again, I ask the question everybody has - it we went to 100 million this offseason, who would we have acquired?  It's all well and good to speak in hypotheticals like this, but give me the name of a specific player who you're certain we could've gotten with that extra money who would have been guaranteed to make that 10 game difference.

History -- across the league, not just with the Mets -- has shown you can never count on a single player (or even a group of high priced players -- See 2012 Marlins) to turn a club around. And let's not forget, the Wilpons have spent the money in the past, and it did not produce the desired result (instead, they got saddled with huge contracts it took them years to shed).

I don't know what the answer is here, but to say this is entirely on ownership for not spending like drunken sailors is just too simplistic. There are no guarantees in this game. These days, I'm not even sure there are any solid bets.

dooley
dooley

@sandybgone And how many of that core of Pettite, Rivera, Jeter, and Posada were high priced free agent acquisitions? I completely agree with Tony's analysis

ken1010
ken1010

@tonyny Choo and Hawkins would have us over .500.  Hawkins would have avoided those four or five losses by Valverde and Farnsworth.  Choo would have given us a consistent leadoff hitter in left field.

qualcomm
qualcomm

@dooley would that core of done ANYTHING without the vets?  I hate that argument... it's four guys, one of which wasn't around for one of the titles.

What about Paul O Neil?  Tino Martinez? The embarrassing acquisitions of  Cone, Dwight and Strawberry? Fielder, Jimmy Key? Rogers Clemens? David Wells?Wade Boggs? Time Raines? Jason Giambi? Mike Mussina?

The "Core" won NOTHING on their own. 

dooley
dooley

@qualcomm I agree that they had to supplant that core with accessory pieces.

My point was that teams with sustained success aren't built through money alone. Look up the teams who have gotten the highest fWAR from their farm system. They have won the World Series three times out of the last ten years