Spring Training: Nationals at Mets, 1 p.m.

spring training nationals at mets

The Good: Everything. It’s the first game of spring training.

The Bad: Nothing. It’s the first game of spring training.

The Game: Rafael Montero will start for the Mets. Last season, he led all Mets’ minor leaguers with 150 strikeouts, while allowing just six home runs with 35 walks.

New York Mets

  1. Chris Young – LF
  2. Ruben Tejada – SS
  3. Curtis Granderson – RF
  4. Ike Davis – 1B
  5. Josh Satin – 3B
  6. Lucas Duda – DH
  7. Wilmer Flores – 2B
  8. Travis d’Arnaud – C
  9. Juan Lagares – CF
Washington Nationals

  1. Nate McLouth – RF
  2. Danny Espinosa – 2B
  3. Ryan Zimmerman – 3B
  4. Adam LaRoche – 1B
  5. Ian Desmond – SS
  6. Wilson Ramos – C
  7. Tyler Moore – DH
  8. Scott Hairston – LF
  9. Eury Perez – CF



183 comments
gloveman
gloveman

Ok, Ike hit a homer. That's good, but what is really important is, does his swing look less complicated? I didn't get a chance to watch today, so can someone tell me if it looked better? Last year he was just looking bad on breaking pitches, how about today? Did he take the pitches he couldn't do anything with, and work the count? That means more to me than the bomb

hankincolo
hankincolo

Looks like Terry Collins needs to throw some bats at the guys, and accuse them of .... wait for it!!!   Lollygagging!  

hankincolo
hankincolo

Yup, baseball is back and the Mets are blowing a lead. LOL :(

iwamofo
iwamofo

0 for Quintanilla representing the amount of playing time he will receive.

cver
cver

I know I'm late to the party here, but anyway, Hi everyone and Spring Training, Great - Let's Go Mets!   LOVE my man Montero!   And IKE IKE IKE IKE!  What the heck?!  Let's hope he keeps it up and does us proud!

tommets
tommets

I love seeing lineups again. Baseball is back and it's great. 

hankincolo
hankincolo

Hey guys, help me out, I can't see the games on TV yet, but on the highlight of Ike's homer on the Mets' website, I heard Ron Darling say... "I told you,..." and then the highlight ended,  so what did Ron say? .
Thanks...

Kevin Joseph Patrick
Kevin Joseph Patrick

Hard outs are still outs; there's no moral victories when you're competing for a job. Both Duda & Davis went 1-3, but Davis has a HR & 2 RBI to go with his 1-3 line. If you must jump to conclusions based upon the first ST game, which many impatient Mets fans are doing here in this thread, then there is no question that the victory goes to Davis.

iwamofo
iwamofo

Ike hits a homerun and everyone forgets what a terrible hitter he was last year until he strikes out again and people remember.  Is Ike worth sticking with when we have a young promising hitter in Flores or does his Davis's past seasons give him another shot.

Mike Dell Italia
Mike Dell Italia

this is your starting mets, with murph at second and wright at 3rd obv, this is the lineup i would like to see.  A lot of questions marks tho, but i think this is the best available team.

Alec Rhodes
Alec Rhodes

Ike has the potential to be a great player but has played like crap for long stretches. Duda has been consistently mediocre. It just depends if you want to roll the dice with Ike or hedge your bets with duda.

Kevin Joseph Patrick
Kevin Joseph Patrick

Why is Tejada out of the game? He hasn't earned anything & shouldn't be given starter treatment. He should be playing 7-9 innings per game so we know if he is worth keeping of not.

hankincolo
hankincolo

I know Terry said he'd give Ike lots of ABs, but I'd take him out, let him leave feeling the Florida sunshine!

Haig Mathosian
Haig Mathosian

As Tom Petty said...."even the losers, get lucky sometimes"

forge344
forge344

Even though Ike does get alot of hate, he is a far better player than Lucas Duda..and it's not even close. 

Steven Glansberg
Steven Glansberg

We like ike! I don't care what duda does this spring training, He should not be our opening day starter

Ed Yano
Ed Yano

You need to play good defense to win.Flores error cost a run Tovar error set up a potential big inning and Dendeckers throw to second cost a run.You won't win if you keep running guys out there who can't play D.I know Tovar and DenDecker are very good defenders,I'm just trying to point out what happens when you don't make the plays.

Mike Dell Italia
Mike Dell Italia

@iwamofo  i just don't understand what makes flores a better option.  Im not a big ike fan either but has had some success and does have a high upside.  I don't think we should just cast him aside for flores.  All bc someone hits in the minors doesn't mean he will hit in the majors.  Im gonna give the guy who has 30 home run potential a crack at the position.  And you know how i know he has 30 home run potential? bc I've seen him do it.  I jus don't get how u can say flores is a better option.

Steven Glansberg
Steven Glansberg


@iwamofo It's clear the mets front office views flores as the man without a position, until ike or duda falls on their face hewon't be given at shot at first

Joseph DeFazio
Joseph DeFazio

@iwamofo  i don't think anybody forgets his last two seasons.  However, we don't really have another option at this point. Also, when Ike has his head in it, he can clearly hit.  You don't hit 30+ HRs in the MLB by accident. 

Kevin Joseph Patrick
Kevin Joseph Patrick

I think saying Ike has the potential to be great is pushing it, and I am & have been a huge Davis supporter. Ike has the ability to be a very good player, but not a great player you can build your team around. The best you can expect from Ike is .250 / 35 HR / 115 RBI & Gold Glove caliber defense. That is very good, but not great. Nevertheless, it is better than anything you could expect from Duda. Saying Duda has been consistently mediocre is being nice; Duda has been horrible. The best you can expect from Duda is .230 / 20 HR / 60 RBI, a high OBP, and average defense. Duda needs to hit 50 HR to break 100 RBI because he is horrendous hitting with RISP. I don't care about the position change - he said he was comfortable in LF last year - his defense is one-tenth that of Davis. Davis has proven he can produce in the big leagues, Duda hasn't performed despite being handed starting jobs each of the past 2 seasons without any competition. He rewarded the team's faith in him by forcing the team to demote him. As far as I'm concerned, the Mets should get whatever they possibly can for Duda, even if it is a crap prospect, or DFA him if they can't get anything. Duda is the epitome of the problems with this team the past few years: Underperforming & not meeting expectations. There shouldn't be a question about the 1B job, it should be Davis' everyday of the week & 3 times on Sunday.

helloboy
helloboy

@The Feels @hankincolo  Its a bunch of subs.  None of the players mentioned will really get time in games this year and certainly not together.  Torres may not even see 2nd base... Tovar and Den Dekker may never even get call ups.  3 of the 4 pitchers who allowed runs have no shot of seeing the team this year.  I do not see why anybody cares about results of ST games...

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@Ed Yano The complete lack of focus on defense, especially infield defense, has probably been my biggest gripe with this team for the past 10 years or more. I really never liked Steve Phillips as a GM, but the one thing I did think he did well was put a team together that could field.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@Mike Dell Italia It's kind of like baseball's version of the old football adage, "The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy on the team." People are frustrated with Ike (and understandably so), and they look at Flores as an unknown, but someone who could produce at the position. Personally I say if they're going to give up on somebody, let it be Ruben Tejada and just live with Flores' bad defense at short. But that's just me.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@SuperDuper If Tejada got hurt again, then we'd be looking at another season of Quintanilla. Which to be honest, I'd almost prefer. Even though he can't hit a lick, at least he can field the position.

forge344
forge344

@BringBackDaveTelghe I wouldn't say very close.. Ike is a way better fielder than Duda, he's faster, and he has a higher ceiling.. if you are starting a team, who would you rather take? 

Steven Glansberg
Steven Glansberg

@Eddie_Dean @Tony Zucco  We all know duda will NEVER be a 30 HR guy or a guy who can get a hit with runners on.. he's just too weak minded, we've seen ike do it, now lets see if we can get a year out of him, if not put flores or someone else there

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@Mike Dell Italia @Eddie_Dean@SuperDuperAgreed, but I don't believe Tejada will give them that either. At least, not an appreciably more amount than Quintanilla would to make up for the difference in their defense.


If you want to say that they should play Flores in that spot, and just live with his questionable fielding in order to get his bat in lineup, that I could get on board with. But it doesn't seem like they're going to do that, at least right now.

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

@Eddie_Dean @BringBackDaveTelghe @forge344  I do admit there's better situational hitters then others, of course.  They had an awesome interview on SNY last year with Votto who talked about his RBI approach which was to not do too much, focus on making strong contact and absolutely just try moving the chains and taking the walk if needed.


I do agree with your it depends on the situational type of approach too, to an extent.  The general rule is you are given only a finite amount of outs in a game.  Avoiding making them at all costs should always be the goal.  You get enough guys on (and have talented hitters on the team) and something will give.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@BringBackDaveTelghe @Eddie_Dean@forge344 I didn't say it wasn't subjective at all. What I said was it's not meaningless. And Ed came up with a good point: They play on the same team, so the same guys were hitting ahead of them last year. You're just not going to get me to accept that everyone's equally good at driving in runs. Some batters clearly just have a better approach than others. And with Duda, I'm not just basing that on last year. He's had "fluky" (to use your word) disparages between his homerun total and his RBI total multiple times in his career, even going back to his career in the minors.

And in response to your question, it depends a little bit on the situation (what inning, who's on the mound, score of the game, etc.), but more often than not I'd rather the RBI groundout that scores a run. Especially in the National League. I can't prove this, but I'm convinced the Mets have mastered the art of loading the bases without scoring a run better than any other team in baseball.

And after all of that, Duda's really not that much better with OBP than Ike anyway. For their careers Duda is only 8 points better than Ike. And if you look at the approach Ike was taking in late July and August last year before he got hurt, it was looking like he had surpassed even Duda's ability. And the problem with devaluing speed (which admittedly neither of them have) is that if you're limiting the ways you can score runs. So you get three dinosaurs on who all walked because they're all so worried about their OBP that they're afraid to swing the bat. Now the 4th one comes up and hits a long fly ball, but the runner on 3rd can't score on it. Then the next guy ground into a double play, in part b/c none of them can run. OBP is great, but when your talking about the guys who are your middle of the order power hitters, the ability to drive in a run any way possible, be it a hit, a homer, or a sac fly is always going to be more important to me than OBP. Sacrificing RBIs for OBP makes no sense to me from slow power hitters.

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

@Eddie_Dean @BringBackDaveTelghe @forge344  But the problem with judging RBI is it's so subjective to who is batting in front of you. Also, if you're up, guys are on second and 3rd with no outs. Would you prefer the guy who gets the RBI groundout or doesn't get the RBI and walks and keeps the chains moving. It's situations like that that really devalue the whole RBI thing.

Speed on the bases doesn't matter all that much. It helps to be able to go first to third and such but if you have guys that are lumbering dinosaurs but get on base 40% of the time, you don't mind too much.

Ed Yano
Ed Yano

Why can't RBI be used to evaluate players on the same team?

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@BringBackDaveTelghe @forge344The OBP would matter a little more to me if they weren't both so damn slow on the basepaths. But neither of them are going to manufacture runs with their legs. Plus, go through their careers year-by-year and Duda's really not been that much better than Ike. Heck, for the last couple months last year Ike's OBP was over .500.


Plus, you're never going to convince me that RBIs are meaningless. Do I really expect Duda's numbers to be AS ridiculous as they were last season if he starts this year? No. But part of driving in runs is having a solid approach at the plate when you come up with runners on, and I don't believe Duda has that. Just look at last year. Duda hit 6 more homers than Ike and had the same number of RBIs. And at the end of the day, his OBP was only 26 points higher than Ike's, despite Ike having the worst season of his career.

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

@forge344 @BringBackDaveTelghe Take the RBI out of the equation.  Can't use those for any meaningful valuation of a player (looks good for fantasy and on baseball cards but that's it).  If you're going to see the glass half full for Duda he did hit 15 homers in 300 ABs last year.

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

@forge344 @BringBackDaveTelghe I'm not so sure I'd want either but Ike plays better D, of course, but it's been much worse since he came back.  Duda is a weird player but he does SOME things good.  He's goot good OBP skills, gets too passive in situations and his RISP numbers last year were fluky bad.