Poor fundamentals continue under new regime

In the Daily News, John Harper says that, despite all of their talk about fundamentals, the Sandy-Alderson, Terry Collins Mets look just as sloppy as Omar Minaya’s and Jerry Manuel’s Mets.

Similarly, in a report for ESPN New York yesterday, Adam Rubin pointed out that while Collins spent plenty of time this past Spring working with his team on ‘the fundamentals,’ Art Howe, Jerry Manuel and Willie Randolph all did the exact-same thing.

[line]

Matthew Cerrone: This edition of the Mets is going to look a little like the previous edition because 13 people on the 25-man roster, not to mention Jason Bay and Johan Santana, were all acquired or promoted by Minaya. I mean, for the most part, the entire starting lineup also played for Manuel. I like what Collins brings to the team, but he’s not a wizard. All he can do is work to change how this team prepares, while putting them in the best position to succeed (and not fail). After that, it’s up to the players.

[line]

Frank Catalanotto: Actually, I think every team is different. I was on some teams where it took a month or two during the season before we were all on the same page. Then, I was on some teams where day 1 of Spring Training guys were on track. However, with this Mets team, there are some new guys that are in there and so I think it’s going to take a little time for them. But, from what I heard, Terry Collins does a great job with that and he really taught and went over the fundamentals during Spring Training. So, I think it won’t be long before they’re all on the same page.

[line]

Frank Catalanotto is from Smithtown, LI. He played 14 seasons in the big-leagues, his final with the Mets. To learn more about his new book, Title of the Book, click here.




306 comments
marcus81
marcus81

if Chris Johnson runs for 5 or 6 yards a pop, run him till the cows come home, and use Ivory and Powell to spell him, if they all get 4 yards a carry then do the committee

nesboogie
nesboogie

The Jets roster in Madden...

juunit
juunit

Knicks made a trade. 


I know literally nothing about the players they got.

harvlis
harvlis

Jets have at least three solid backs, three receiving TE's, two very good slot receivers, two rushing QB's, and a decent receiving corp. Marty is going to party, this season.

Disgruntled Jets Fan
Disgruntled Jets Fan

In the waaaaay too late to tge party department: we could call them Cerberus, as in the three headed hellhound from Greco-Roman myths.

Brendan
Brendan

Teddy B already guaranteed first-team reps in the preseason opener. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@juunit You can be forgiven for not having had an 2012 draftee on your radar because why would you?


But Travis Outlaw has been around for ages.  I am stunned that he is only 29.  If you asked me to guess I'd have said 38.

marcus81
marcus81

@harvlis  it all comes down to the O line giving the offense enough time

tsjc68
tsjc68

@harvlis

Marty is going to party, this season.


HEY-EY-EY-EY-EY-EY

IT'S A MARTY IN THE U-S-A!

Bent
Bent moderator

@harvlis And a partridge in a pear tree!

Bent
Bent moderator

@Brendan How do we know he was punting?  Someone might have just thrown a football at him because he refused to stop doing the can-can.

bob
bob

@Brendan 

I like Teddy Bridgewater It wouldnt surprise me if he's the best out of the bunch. Brendan I think you nail it with you wanting Geno for the Jets 2nd round pick . I think Geno is the QB we been waiting for a long time.

juunit
juunit

@Brendan 

I think Bortles has a good shot of starting too. Henne was garbage in their scrimmage. 

levi
levi

@Brendan He will be the starter. He could have been ours....

Lloyd Jay Reife
Lloyd Jay Reife

@Bent @juunit


Outlaw signed a $35 million dollar contract over 5 years like Decker, showing how in the NBA it's much less scrutinized than in the NFL.  It'll come and go and only Outlaw's banker will know.   (And his BMW dealer).

juunit
juunit

@Bent @juunit 

I've heard the name. Hard to forget Outlaw. But I know nothing about him. For all I know, he's a 3-point shooting leprechaun with rose gold teef and a tendency to choke his coach. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Last I heard, Hoyer is starting that game and Manziel isn't going to sub into him until they switch to the 2nd team, but if so, good for him. 

jsadolph
jsadolph

@juunit @Brendan 

But Teddy might actually be win the job.  Whereas Bortles will be givin the starting job by default(a la Sanchez).

tsjc68
tsjc68

@levi @Brendan

(prays to Bob that Geno grows into the awesome QB he can be so that we don't regret passing on Bridgewater)

Bent
Bent moderator

@juunit @Bent


$3m expiring contract is all you need to know.


He's one of these OMG athletic 6'9" small forwards that was supposed to revolutionize the game entering the league at 19 and like most of the rest, he was unable to do much until he developed an NBA body which caused him to lose a bit of dynamism and fall short of his supposed potential.


He had a couple of seasons as a third banana on bad teams and since then has been a bit of a stiff to be honest.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Disgruntled Jets Fan

SO IN LOVE

I'll give it all away

I don't care if they talking tomorrow

CAUSE TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT OH-OH-OH-OH

THAT I GIVE YOU EVERYTHING

MUSIC KNOCKIN TILL THE MORNING LIGHT


CAUSE WE LIKE TO MARTY

Brendan
Brendan

@levi Rob has eaten two meals for every meal Rex has missed since the surgery, just to prove a point. 

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

Pettine said Manziel will get some 1st team reps in the game, then the reporter asked if Manziel earned them and Pettine said NO but that was the plan all along...

juunit
juunit

@jsadolph @juunit @Brendan 

Maybe so. Although I've seen that Bortles is at least impressing people while throwing on the run. So he'll probably at least be good for a couple big plays. 

levi
levi

@tsjc68  I still cant believe he dropped that far. For the love of Bob why didnt we take him?!

rstysanchz
rstysanchz

@Bent he was straight out of high school the same year as lebron...i remember outlaw killing it in that high school all star game but he never did much in the pros 

DarrolRayFanClub
DarrolRayFanClub

@Bent @juunit Ellington is $2.771 expiring. So they are saving 200K (Acy makes 20K more than Tyler), and giving up some meaningless 2nd round restrictions to do so. About as meaningless a trade you'll see.

juunit
juunit

@Bent @juunit 

It's alright, we're only giving up another draft pick and a promising young depth player...

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Ah, I missed that. Thanks. 


FWIW, it's been made clear that Teddy has earned them because he's probably been the best QB in camp so far for the Vikings. 

Brendan
Brendan

@juunit 


This city's only purpose is to stage the Georgia-Florida game. It is a temporary fairground that people decided to live in for some reason. But it COULD have a decent NFL team if the Jaguars ever managed to get their sht together, which will probably never happen. They are installing swimming pools at the stadium, which is the universal signal for "we know you're not here to watch the game." At some point, the Jags will be forced to play in the parking lot while the team sets up a miniature Ferris Wheel on the main field to get people to show up.

a57se
a57se

@juunit @jsadolph @Brendan 

Tom Savage is impressing in Houston with his arm strength... looks like Case Keenum may be on his way out...

juunit
juunit

@levi 

The fact that he supposedly couldn't keep on the weight he put on for the combine would have worried me. But, yeah, passing on him when we didn't even have to trade up for him was not a move I was a fan of. 

bob
bob

@levi  I think Geno is even better Geno's another guy evey one over looked.

DarrolRayFanClub
DarrolRayFanClub

@juunit @Bent They already owned our 2016 2nd rounder. We had a restriction on it if the pick was 31-37, and those were removed. 



juunit
juunit

@Brendan @juunit 

I doubt LA wants the Jaguars. They've already got their own team.

The LA Kiss. 

levi
levi

@juunit  Not just that but when he hit the late 20's I would have moved up especially with all the picks we had. But whatevs, we gonna roll with Geno.

a57se
a57se

@juunit @levi 

You'll have to console yourself with the next Jack Tatum...

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se And Manziel's is the immortal Brian Hoyer, but you felt the need to bring that up. 

Brendan
Brendan

@juunit I want the Jags in LA so badly just so Khan is there, glorious mustache and all. He needs to be front and center in a big media market. 

a57se
a57se

@juunit @a57se 

Oh, Savages arm strength has little to do with Keenum being on the way out.

From what I am hearing, Keenum is really struggling with O'Briens' offense and has looked terrible.

If he is cut, it will be because he sucks, not because Savage is so much better but they can probably find someone better on waivers...

a57se
a57se

@Disgruntled Jets Fan 

Your memories are of an 18 year old freshman...one would think he has matured somewhat since then...

juunit
juunit

@a57se @juunit 

Who would they keep over Keenum though? They traded Yates I thought. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @juunit

If he is cut, it will be because he sucks, not because Savage is so much better but they can probably find someone better on waivers... 


Like maybe Matt Simms, for example.

levi
levi

@bob  I hope he pans out Bob but honestly I think he has a long way to go.

Brendan
Brendan

@bob His demeanor is really good for the NY media. He doesn't get too high or too low when it comes to stuff they ask him. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Not sure what you mean by "I'll bite," I'm not baiting anyone here. The guy is, by all accounts, a pretty awesome dude. He has a mustache people should write novels about, he's pouring money into a dogsht stadium trying to make the best of it and he's got a fun personality. Copy/paste the link I posted (for some reason it won't paste a link properly) and tell me that's not a guy you want to see more of. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @Brendan @juunit

Because he looks like a hilariously awesome guy and it's just a shame that he's stuck with the most putrid, irrelevant team in the league.

juunit
juunit

@Brendan 

It's funny, because he kinda looks like Gene Simmons. So there would be two Gene Simmonses who own football teams in LA. 

a57se
a57se

@juunit @a57se 

There will be QB's hitting the streets at cutdowns...I would think they might go for a vet to back-up Fitz.

bob
bob

@levi @bob  Maybe Geno was thrown to the fire last year he took his lumps yes this is true but Geno handled it and improved . Geno's a worker and has the passion to be great. echo's out of the camp by his comrades. I for one am all in.

a57se
a57se

@levi @bob 

We all hope he pans out, some of us just don't think it is likely.

bob
bob

@Brendan @bob 

Yes I agreeHe's has the right demeanor "hint hint" useally turns out the making of a great QB. I still think Geno's the best paly maker on the offense.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

I wasn't sure if you liked the guy or thought he was another Donald Sterling...

juunit
juunit

@a57se @juunit 

I dunno. Keenum played pretty damn well for a 3rd QB last year. And at this point, he's probably got as much NFL playing experience as any 3rd QB you're gonna find. 

levi
levi

@bob  I like Geno and he has improved. I liked Teddy B too though and I wanted to draft him then if Geno doesnt pan out you have Teddy or if they are both good we trade one. I was just so sick of poor QB play I was willing to go to the extreme to remedy that.

bob
bob

@a57se @levi @bob  I really think he will He certaintly isnt playing like a bust he's getting better and better.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se ...and feel the need to remind people of that constantly. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68 @juunit @levi

In some parts of Canada, milk comes in bags. They are sold in central and eastern Canada, but not widely in western Canada (ManitobaSaskatchewanAlberta andBritish Columbia) and Newfoundland and Labrador.[1] Three bags are sold together in a larger bag containing a total of 4 litres of milk. The bags are not sold individually, and are either not labeled at all or labeled with only the expiry date, the lot number and sometimes the type of milk contained in the bag. The three-bag 4 litre package is the largest normally sold at retail, with the lowest unit price. Some convenience store chains offer 4-litre plastic jugs instead of milk bags, even in eastern Canada.

Two accessories are commonly associated with Canadian milk bags: pitchers and bag openers. The key-shaped bag opener with a clip and a magnet was invented in Toronto in 1979.[2] These bag openers are a common type of refrigerator magnet, although the bags can be opened with scissors.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_bag

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se When you brought up Manziel and, later, Matt Cassel. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @Brendan

Why on earth would we 

A.) think that Shahid Khan and Donald Sterling have anything in common, or

B.) want "another Donald Sterling" in LA?

a57se
a57se

@juunit @a57se 

I'm just telling you what I am hearing on the local sports radio here. The guys have been attending camp every day and they are saying Keenum looks really bad. 

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

Just like others feel the need to tell everyone how good he is gonna be and how much he improved...

tsjc68
tsjc68

@Bent @bob @Brendan

Any photographs on holiday, eh?  Some pics?  Eh?  Nudge nudge wink wink say no more, say no more.

levi
levi

@tsjc68  Why cant we get beer in a bag? My favorite things come in bags!!!

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

Bringing up Manziel and then Cassell has nothing to do with Hoyer...

Disgruntled Jets Fan
Disgruntled Jets Fan

You also haven't seen anything period since December, so that's a meaningless statement.

levi
levi

@a57se  he is looking off DB's now...sometimes twice in a row.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se One of those almost always follows the other.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Stop being dumb, 57. Don't bring up Manziel getting first team reps before scoffing at Teddy B doing it if you don't expect Hoyer's name to immediately come up. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se It's insane that you think people think this way. 


No, I didn't want him in LA so someone could out him as a bad person. I want him in LA because it's the only major city in the market for a new NFL team, he has an NFL team in a horrible market, and he looks like a cross between a Bond villain and a Mike Myers character. 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se

If he was a d-bag, we wouldn't want him rewarded with a more appealing and glamorous LA franchise, we'd want him drummed out of the league (or, consigned to a fate worse than death: forced to watch Jacksonville Jaguars games at Everbank Stadium forever.)

a57se
a57se

I know it should be a c instead of an s but livefyre put me in moderastion so i changed it...

Ceifus Hornswoggle
Ceifus Hornswoggle

@levi @a57se 

We'll see if he can look right and throw left.  Last year, defenders could watch his eyes and then pick him off.  He's got to get better at that.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

I wasn't scoffing at Bridgewater getting first team reps nor was I lauding Manziel for it...

you read WAY too much into my comments.


Brendan
Brendan

@a57se This is a gross (and not really accurate) generalization. 


By his coach's own accord, he's been much improved this year. 

Bent
Bent moderator

@Ceifus Hornswoggle @levi @a57se Marty said they had to tell him not to get fancy with looking defenders off and stuff, which would suggest he's at least been working on not staring down his target.

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 @a57se @bob @levi 

Last summer he was playing very well in practices until he hurt his ankle.

his game play was sub-par...I know this is true.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68 @bob @levi

Last summer he was decent in practices until he hurt his ankle, but still a step slow and unsure of himself, his footwork, his reads, his audibles and line calls, etc.


Look, this is not something you can debate.  His coaches and teammates saw him in practice and in games in 2013 and they've all said he's improved not just down the stretch last December but also in practices this spring/summer.


You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.


The fact that YOU haven't seen improvement doesn't mean that improvement has not happened.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se I guess this includes the time he gave himself an "F" in his first ever practice. Or that time he threw four interceptions in a single practice and his head coach called him "brutal." 

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 @a57se @bob @levi 

SD99 came back from training camp and told us all how good Geno looked and most of the summer everyone said he was outplaying Sanchez in training camp until he hurt his ankle...stop trying to reqrite history.

Plus I didn't say he hasn't improved since last years' training camp, I SAID HE HASN'T IMPROVED SINCE DECEMBER as far as I can tell.

SackDance99
SackDance99

@a57se @tsjc68 @bob @levi Too clarify, Geno looked good relative to his competition.  Now, as for his in-season game play, we can go down that road again, but the ONLY WR that he had most of the season that he actually practiced with at camp was Kerley.  His record with Kerley healthy: 8-4.  I didn't see Geno with Holmes, Hill switching sides, extended Clyde Gates play, etc.  And, as folks may remember, I thought that the best WR in camp was Vidal Hazelton, who went down with an injury and may be out of football.  In short, as good as Geno was in camp, he needed a comfort level with the players around him, not a constant carousel of free agent pick ups and guys playing out of position.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se "I SAID HE HASN'T IMPROVED SINCE DECEMBER as far as I can tell. "


And how would you tell? This is the point. 

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se Both of those weren't, just the 4 int day. And you keep whittling down your generalization some more, we'll be here in case you decide to just take it back altogether as the silly generalization that it is. 

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

That is exactly my point. NO ONE CAN TELL IF HE IS BETTER THEN LAST YEAR YET.

I don't give a rats' arse that he is better then he was last year at this time...he should be.

I want to see if he is better then he was in December and we won't know that until the season gets going.

Brendan
Brendan

@a57se "NO ONE CAN TELL IF HE IS BETTER THEN LAST YEAR YET."


This is categorically untrue. His coaches can, and they say that's exactly what they've seen. They always say he needs to show how this translates to his game play, but he is a much improved practice player, which is the first sign of an in-game improved player. 


"I don't give a rats' arse that he is better then he was last year at this time...he should be."


And he is. So, moving on. 


"I want to see if he is better then he was in December and we won't know that until the season gets going."


So you're going to be obnoxiously insufferable about his 'LACK OF IMPROVEMENT' even if he's improved and just hasn't lived enough time on earth to make it to the 2014 NFL season yet? If he plays well in preseason will you give us "it's just preseason" responses? 

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @Brendan

That is exactly my point. NO ONE CAN TELL IF HE IS BETTER THEN LAST YEAR YET.


No.


That is incorrect.


YOU cannot tell if he is better than last year yet, because YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER OF THE JETS ORGANIZATION WHO SEES HIM IN MEETINGS AND PRACTICES EVERY DAY.


YOU CAN'T TELL.  THEY CAN.  AND THEY HAVE.  UNANIMOUSLY.


His coaches and teammates CAN TELL IF HE'S IMPROVED, AND THEY SAY HE HAS.


You are wrong.


Stop speaking out of ignorance.

a57se
a57se

@Brendan @a57se 

I sincerely hope your optimism turns to reality with Geno, I am tired of shoddy QB play.

We will know in a few months where we stand.

a57se
a57se

@tsjc68 @a57se @Brendan 

Yeah, they said the same crap about Sanchez...stop being purposely naive because it suits your narrative.

tsjc68
tsjc68

@a57se @tsjc68 @Brendan

Meanwhile, you've maintained that Sanchez actually did improve during those early years (and he did) before peaking in 2011 when he got hurt.


So, "They said Sanchez improved too" 

A.) Doesn't mean it's not true when they say Geno improves now

B.) Doesn't mean it wasn't true when Sanchez improved back then

C.) Still doesn't change the fact that you are speaking out of willful ignorance when you say "I haven't seen him improve during this period of time where I WAS NOT PRESENT TO WATCH HIM AND SEE IF HE HAS IMPROVED OR NOT.

Pablo Bruno
Pablo Bruno

@tsjc68 @a57se @Brendan Oh for crying out loud you are both right, there is no way to tell point for tsjc68, It's true @a57se hasn't seen him get better since December well duh, he hasn't seen Geno practice, point for @a57se for being honest, next? lol

Pablo Bruno
Pablo Bruno

@a57se @Pablo Bruno yea, we won't know until tomorrow, in a short glimpse if he shows signs of improvement, he may play what an entire quarter or less? Hopefully he can keep drives alive and the defense can give the offense back the ball quickly..lol, hopefully not by allowing the other team to score quickly