Moment from PSL: Is this the starting outfield?

Andrew Vazzano, SNY.tv

After morning stretches, most of the team made their way over to the main field to throw and prepare for the coming intrasquad game. Curtis Granderson, Juan Lagares and Chris Young stayed on Field 2 and played a quick game, tossing two baseballs to each other to see if they could catch both.

Granderson Lagares Chris Young

Tom Goodwin watched and Terry Collins made his way over, then held a quick conversation with the trio of outfielders.


Later, the three fielded line drives and ground balls off the bat of Goodwin…

Outfield Drills


It was interesting to see these three together, separate from the rest, especially with Eric Young Jr. battling a bit of an oblique strain. This could be the team’s starting outfield come March 31, but I wonder who plays where?

Lagares or one of the Youngs in center? Granderson in left or right? Does Lagares play anywhere but center? Guess we’ll have to wait and see…

96 comments
nyijkm
nyijkm

Grandy said on Hot Stove said that Cesar Puello inpressed him the most out of all the young guys in camp. I'm excited for what he can bring to our OF/1B this year.

nyijkm
nyijkm

Lagares was a finalist for Gold Glove at CF last year. Enough said. and hitting in the Dom Winter League does not equate to MLB success, but it is a start. Lets all just see these guys earn it in Spring Training.

mustang66
mustang66

if Lagares isn't in center then these guys are Off Center. I believe, is he is the everyday center fielder, he can save 50 runs in a season with his glove.

Kenneth Meltsner
Kenneth Meltsner

If Lagares can hit a lick he starts in CF. Let's build for the future.

Pat Brady
Pat Brady

If Lagares plays he's your center fielder without a doubt. That guy is already one of the top 5 fielding outfielders in the league. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 guys that I'd take over him as far as defense goes. 

bsp123
bsp123

Lagares looks much bigger this year.

chasesimms
chasesimms

 They should let the Mets start 4 outfielders.  Problem solved! 

Young Ki
Young Ki

I really don't understand why there is a debate on who will play CF.  If Lagares doesn't start CF for this team, that is just crazy.  How do you not have your best defensive player in the team not play the most important OF position just because you want to have less than average OBP player leadoff??


I get that Lagares needs improve at the plate, but CF is a premium defensive position which needs a premium defensive player.  It's not like EY is a OBP machine like Matt Carpenter was for the Cards (he had 3 SBs all year BTW).  Just because EY led the league in SBs, you can't ditch your best defensive player aside so that EY can lead off.

Christopher Masiello
Christopher Masiello

It doesn't matter where the three of them play, since they can all field very well. It just matters if CY makes contact and Lagares does anything at the plate.

mets2014
mets2014

starters: E young in LF C Young in CF Granderson in RF

bench: A Brown 4th OF Duda 5th OF/1B

nagel100
nagel100

that should be the starting OF.  EY should be our 4th OF.  pinch hitter, pinch runner.  he get 300 at bats playing 50 games and pinch hitting.  he could also DH and lead off vs American League teams.  Legares has to be our CF until he proves unable to hit.  then things could change.  I don't care where Young and Granderson play.  whoever has the better arm plays right.  the other plays left.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

If Lagares is starting, I can't see it being anywhere but center. You can't justify having his bat in the lineup in the corner spots.

Victor Triguero
Victor Triguero

I don't get how some people can bash lagares complaining that he can't hit..meanwhile he is a good kid...a+ defender and tries hard...but u got ike Davis and tejada who can't hit....tejada is a bum..but they get automatic spots and some people are cool with it...am I missing something?

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@Young Ki I hear what you're saying, but Chris Young is no slouch in center himself. Guy has been a solid defensive centerfielder. And EYJ was a runner up for the GG last year. An outfield of EYJ, Young, and Granderson would not be bad at all defensively. Not as good as Young, Lagares, Granderson, I'd agree. But certainly not bad. 

p8erbaghad
p8erbaghad

@mets2014 If you're not going to use Legares in CF, I'd much rather go with Brown/Duda in LF.  EYJ brings nothing with the bat and can't get on base.  At least with Brown and Duda, HRs can happen.  And before someone starts talking about how bad we were with Duda in the OF last year, may I remind you that Ankiel and Cowgill was also out there with Duda so perhaps Duda is just getting unfairly blamed for more than he deserved.

jamets
jamets

@mets2014If I had to guess, this is the lineup I expect to see on opening day, too.  

Not sure they'll send Lagares down, though.  I think there's an opportunity for him to get enough playing time that they keep him around.

Steven Matregrano
Steven Matregrano

@nagel100  He already proved that last season.. he couldn't hit the ball to save his life and he made a few nice plays.. other than that, I saw nothing more than whats expected from an outfielder at that stage of professional ball.

Steven Matregrano
Steven Matregrano

@Victor Triguero  You're missing the fact that Davis hit 32 home runs, but you know he can't hit right? The year before that he batted .300, but you forgot that too right? You're also forgetting that this is a business. Do you get a pay raise for trying hard? NO. You get a pay raise for performance and quality. Lagares can't hit the ball. That's half of this teams problem is our offense. If EY lead off and could bunt and use his speed to help score runs, then he wins over Lagares. Lagares may be a good kid, but to say he has A+ defense after half a season is mind blowing. He was not slated a decent prospect, and only got the chance to play because we had career minor leaguers in the outfield. So yes, I think you are missing something.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@Victor Triguero I wouldn't say Ike has an automatic spot right now. He is battling someone in camp. Granted it's only Lucas Duda, but still. And even should he win, it'll only be for a platoon job with Satin, it looks like.

That Tejada is practically being handed a spot at short right now is atrocious. There I'd agree. As far as Lagares is concerned, I'm looking forward to seeing him in center and see if he can hit on the major league level. He's hit in the minors, and in the Dominican League this year. If he could just bump up his BA from last year by 10-15 points and his OBP by 20-30, with his glove he could start in center and bat near the bottom of the lineup for a long time.

crafalko17
crafalko17

@p8erbaghad @mets2014 No, he was pretty terrible. He has no range and doesn't make the plays he's supposed to. Plus he isn't even working out in the OF atm.

mets2014
mets2014

@jamets @mets2014 lagares is better served playing everyday plus the mets are better served with power bats like brown and duda coming off the bench

Jimmy
Jimmy

Lagares had a better average than Chris Young last year. Also, he was +11 in Runs Saved to CY's -8. Real tough choice

nagel100
nagel100

@Steven Matregrano @nagel100  a few nice plays? are you talking about EY or Legares?  Hopefully EY who is our 4thn OF imo.   Legares is a legit glove glove candidate.  his arm has the stats behind it and CF at Citi Field is huge.  he shocked everyone with his defense but you if you are referring to Legares. 


"Mets OF Juan Lagares had 12 outfield-arm runs saved in 2013, second behind OF Gerardo Parra (Dewan, Jan. 10).

“His lofty total was supported by his 12 kills — runners thrown out without the assist of a relay man,” Dewan writes about Lagares. “That is the sixth-highest total in the last five seasons. He trailed Parra’s 15 kills last season, but Lagares joined Adam Jones — who had 10 kills in 2010 and 13 kills in 2011 — as one of only two center fielders to exceed eight kills in a season since 2009.”

According to FanGraphs, Lagares saved 28 runs overall in 2013, third most behind Parra and Carlos Gomez among outfielders.


try to be clear about what you are saying.


Victor Triguero
Victor Triguero

@Steven Matregrano 


Ok so Ike Davis hit 302. in 36 games in 2011 so that does not count and had a half a season where he hit for power...so if we are using the same criteria saying Lagares has only showed great defense for a half season then how does Ike get a guaranteed spot? He has been worse than better. His batting average in the last two seasons of playing over 100 games each season is not even 230. His WAR last year was 0.2. His OBP the last two years is under 320.


And you failed to even mention how bad Tejada is so I am assuming you agree with that at least..


Look...I am not saying Lagares is going to be Carlos Beltran....what I would like to see is this...


If Tejada who has been horrible, comes to camp out of shape and was the focal point of a lot of scrutiny from Sandy and then Davis who lets be real, they wanted him out of here in the worst way, to only come back and say Tejada is our SS and Davis is our 1B, then why can we not give Lagares a full season


And if you can use Ike hitting 32 home runs most of them coming after the all-star break then I can use the same 121 games that Lagares played last year an say he is an A+ defender.

Balonius
Balonius

@Steven Matregrano  Yeah, .301 in a 129ABs and 149PA. Don't confuse Ike Davis with a .300 hitter or you'll look like you don't know what you're talking about. BTW .242 in 400+ ABs his first yr in the bigs -- where do you get "he can't hit" from? last time I checked EY hit around .250 and his d was no where near as good as what Lageres brought last year...


jamets
jamets

@billennium @Steven Matregrano@nagel100There's actually a pretty good article on Fangraphs, I think, that looks at Lagares's defensive stats and concludes that there probably IS some flukiness to them.  It was linked to on MetsMinorLeagueBlog.  A good part of his value in UZR and WAR is connected to the OF assists, and apparently those are pretty fluky.

The Feels
The Feels

@billennium @Steven Matregrano @nagel100  Dude, this guy is the funniest poster on here. He always talks like EYJr is good and Lagares sucks. It's hilarious. Most unknowledgeable Mets fan on this blog. And he always calls people morons and stupid, too. 

Steven Matregrano
Steven Matregrano

@Victor Triguero @Steven Matregrano @nagel100  We are giving Tejada the job because to replace him would either cost money via signing Drew, or trading for someone and losing young pitching prospects. That's the difference. To replace Lagares, really doesn't cost much since we had already signed Granderson and C Young.

Victor Triguero
Victor Triguero

@Steven Matregrano @Victor Triguero @nagel100  But see that is my point...if we are going to give Ruben Tejada the job, we might as well give Lagares the job...you do not want a bad defender in CF. CF is the most important OF position. You need a top class defender and he showed he can be that last year

Victor Triguero
Victor Triguero

@Steven Matregrano @nagel100  Dude first of all you are rude as hell, second of all...no one is saying he is a top prospect and no one is saying he is a big time player, the point is he is better than you are giving him credit for. He played 121 games last season and had A+ DEFENSE....he should get a full season in CF. If at years end his offense is a joke, then they should reconsider.



billennium
billennium

@Steven Matregrano @nagel100  You are OUTSIDE YOUR MIND. The stats provided clearly compare him directly with some of the best defensive OFs in baseball. I think you can be a fluke with the bat, I do not think you can fake being a gold glove caliber defender.

Steven Matregrano
Steven Matregrano

@nagel100  Im saying Lagares is a fluke and is not a gold glove outfielder. Is that clear enough for you? He had one good half season. He's not a top prospect by any means, and only shined over people because he was being compared to outfielders like Andrew Brown, Marlon Byrd, Neuiwenheis, ETC. 

Victor Triguero
Victor Triguero

@Steven Matregrano @Victor Triguero  See I agree with you here...I don't have a problem with Ike at first to be honest...Tejada is my problem in reality...but come on dude...they wanted to trade him....they had discussions with the Orioles, the Pirates and god knows who else 

Steven Matregrano
Steven Matregrano

@Victor Triguero I don't care for Tejada, if he stays or if he's replaced. Davis has more potential and hes proven that, which is why they really want him to pan out again like he did two years ago. Hes not very old, so it's not like his good years are behind him. You're missing my point. Davis was slated a top tier prospect for us and Lagares wasn't. That's why when I mention 32 home runs, it's what we all thought he could do and did do. As for Lagares, the light shined on him last year, but hes bound to come back down to Earth this season. Also, they did not want Davis out of here "badly". If they wanted him gone, we would have given him away for nothing, but oh wait. We didn't.. we actually wanted legitimate players for him.

Mike Dell Italia
Mike Dell Italia

@Steven Matregrano @billennium @Balonius @nagel100  bro you either play good defense or you don't.  Maybe throwing people out can be fluky.  But straight up catching the ball in the outfield, you either can do it or you can't. Ive been reading you posts, you don't know what your talking ab on most of them.  

billennium
billennium

@Steven Matregrano @billennium @Balonius @nagel100  YOU CAN'T FAKE DEFENSE! Do you think he is going to forget how to track a fly ball or throw? He didn't provide WAR with his bat, he did it with defense. Defense isn't something you typically "come back to earth from." No need to name call.

billennium
billennium

@Steven Matregrano @Balonius  


I am just going to copy and paste from @nagel100 post above.. Provide OK defense? Stop talking down to people if you're not well informed:

"Mets OF Juan Lagares had 12 outfield-arm runs saved in 2013, second behind OF Gerardo Parra (Dewan, Jan. 10).


“His lofty total was supported by his 12 kills — runners thrown out without the assist of a relay man,” Dewan writes about Lagares. “That is the sixth-highest total in the last five seasons. He trailed Parra’s 15 kills last season, but Lagares joined Adam Jones — who had 10 kills in 2010 and 13 kills in 2011 — as one of only two center fielders to exceed eight kills in a season since 2009.”


According to FanGraphs, Lagares saved 28 runs overall in 2013, third most behind Parra and Carlos Gomez among outfielders.

That is more than OK defense...

Steven Matregrano
Steven Matregrano

@Balonius  I'm pretty sure if you watched Mets Hot Stove with Kevin Burkhardt and Ike Davis they talked about how he hit .300 at one point. He can clearly do it. As Wright said, HES HIT 32 HOME RUNS IN NY AND has hit .300. Need I say more? Also, simply watching him. He couldn't hit a fastball and barely could read pitches. EY brings more to the table. There's more to baseball than batting average and OBP you know.... EY lead off games and got on base early to help us score early. Notice how whenever we score first, we tend to win most of those games. So that's where I got it from. EY can bunt for a hit, lead off, use his speed to steal bases, and do the little things that help win games. While Lagares can provide OK defense. He had a half good year, lets not go crazy.