syndergaardvegas

Mets still debating whether to add Syndergaard in Sept.

The Mets have still not decided whether to add RHP prospect Noah Syndergaard to their 40-man roster and promote him in September, Sandy Alderson said before Tuesday’s game.

Alderson said Syndergaard could benefit from being around the team, and seeing the big leagues, even if he only makes an occasional in-game appearance. However, he added, “We don’t have 40-man roster spots readily available for everybody we potentially want to see in September.”

The team’s current 40-man roster is at 37, according to Alderson.

Syndergaard will need to be added before this offseason to protect him from being taken by another team during the Rule 5 draft.


manganavatarBrian P. Mangan: Syndergaard has been unlucky this year with a .380 BABIP, a figure which is almost unheard of over as many innings as he’s thrown this year (124 1/3 innings). It is the fifth-highest figure out of the 28 pitchers that have taken the mound for his team this season. The rest of Syndergaard’s profile is extraordinarily strong. His K/9 is 9.77, good for third in the entire league. He’s been a little wild, but his K/BB ratio is still ninth best in his league among 39 qualified starters. Overall, his FIP (fielding independent pitching) is good for third in the league at 3.79.

Perhaps the best part of all of Syndergaard’s success is the relatively young age at which he is achieving it…


Syndergaard turns 22 on August 29. When Zack Wheeler was 22, he was pitching well in Double-A before pitching in pitcher-friendly Triple-A Buffalo (his low ERA hid his poor peripherals, 33-16 K-BB). Matt Harvey was in Single- and Double-A when 22-years-old, dominating, but doing so in a lower level of the minors. The Mets are lucky to have had success recently in developing Harvey and Wheeler, and should know that Syndergaard had proven capable of following in their footsteps.

If Wheeler was ready, then Syndergaard is ready. Wheeler neither struck out as many (his K/9 was a strong 9.2) or walked as few (his BB/9 was 3.8) as Syndergaard has, despite being 15 months his senior. Syndergaard has pitched even better recently, with a 2.95 ERA and massive 10.9 K/9 over his last 39 2/3 innings (seven starts).

As the Mets’ season winds down, calling up Syndergaard – who must be added to the 40 man roster this offseason anyway – can serve multiple purposes: 1) It can give him a taste of the majors, a reward for a season pitching in the punishing Las Vegas desert; 2) it can allow Syndergaard to acclimate himself and perhaps be more prepared to contribute out of the gate in 2015; and 3) it can reward loyal fans with another glimpse of the future as the Mets finish up yet another dreary season.



Brian Mangan is an attorney who lives in New York City. His writing can be found at The Read Zone. You can follow his Mets-related thoughts on Twitter: @brianpmangan




142 comments
Bryan McEntee
Bryan McEntee

Don't bring him up to excite the fan base or because the season is going into the toilet. Bring him up when he's actually ready. What a novel idea!

John Schod
John Schod

Why not bring back Valverde and Farnsworth to see what they can provide for next year!


Bring the kid up! Nothing to lose! Give the fans something to hope for!!!

Brian Kalinka
Brian Kalinka

Took me like 1 minute to go through our 40 man roster and find 2 names that could easily be cut to make room. Walters, Goeddel. They're useless and dead weight. This organization is like an incompetent machine. 

Andrew LaForge
Andrew LaForge

I would say bring him up. I would like for him to have major league experience this year. Make a few starts, or even work out of the bullpen to face big league batters if he is that close to his innings limit. Similar to Wainwright. Then come Spring Training he can compete for a spot in the rotation.

Tarheel11
Tarheel11

Harvey and Wheeler were both 23 when they hit the majors, Syndergaard still hasn't turned 22 (2 more days).

At 21 Harvey was still at UNC and Wheeler was in high A. Noah will be fine

jmjmjm
jmjmjm

Something to consider about September call-ups is if a guy goes on the DL during a September call-up, he accrues service time for the duration of the DL stint. So, if Syndergaard were to blow out his elbow (knock on wood) or sustain any injury with a 6+ month rehab it would mess with any efforts to delay his free agency by a year. 


I hope they wait to call him up until late April. You're trading a few September appearances and three weeks of his rookie year for one year during his prime by delaying free agency.

metjetnet
metjetnet

The comparisons between Thor & Harvey/Wheeler really need to be put away. Now. For good -- for everyone's good.

If anyone has looked closely at Noah this year, the discrepancy between his body/mechanics, on the one hand, and what is on his face & in his eyes, on the other, is immense.

In short, Thor he may be, but he's still Baby Thor…

Look at the eyes of these three guys.

Harvey's demeanor & the look in his eyes clearly showed that his body was 24, but his mind was 30. Good. He was an established MLB starter long before he ever got here.

Wheeler's demeanor & the look in his eyes clearly showed that his body was 22, but his mind was 24. OK. Kinda arrogant, had to be pounded a bit early on, but finally wised up to what needed to be done.

Noah's demeanor & the look in his eyes clearly show that his body may look 26, but his mind is 16, maybe 19. Not good. Not ready for prime time. Viola alluded to this flaw recently, too.

We all get overwhelmed by the body & the arm -- first off, he's HUGE; and can be dominating, even at this early stage, by just simply THROWING. For the 1st time, that hasn't worked too well at AAA; imagine how professional hitters in the NL would feast on him. It'd look like a pride of lions with an impala.

Look at interviews with him, look at close-up pics in articles about him. He's got a very young baby face; but it's the eyes that tip off the usual uncertainty & apprehension of your typical teenager. He's Baby Huey, in the flesh. 

He's a huge KID! His body has brought him all this way. At warp-speed. Now, it is time to step back, and allow him to grow up a tiny bit. His arm/body clearly need no more time at AAA. His head & his ability to PITCH clearly need AT LEAST another half year with Frank Viola at Vegas.

Harvey is much smarter than his body; Wheeler is as smart as his body. Noah has no clue what his body is doing or why -- his body Is in full control & mentally he's struggling, which is why he needs more time simply to grow up a bit, learn the game & learn his craft. 

So that he can take his place as perhaps the best of the three.




loopenark
loopenark

It doesn't look to me like Syndergaard is close to being ready for the big leagues. On the whole his season was disappointing, mainly because of all the hype that proceeded him. He will not crack the Mets' rotation in 2015 as presently constituted. Let him feel good about his late season improvements at AAA and call it a day. Lets see how he starts off next year at Vegas.     

dannym28
dannym28

Because the dynamic duo of carlyle and eveland are too important to DFa for this kid

matmil
matmil

A lot of hype with this kid, I'm always wary when that happens. Better to have a DeGrom who nobody saw coming.

truth77
truth77

@Brian P. Mangan  You cannot measure the Heart and Will  of some.All I know Bowman throws 95 with four pitches he strikeout to walk ratio is off the charts and to me that is the most important makeup of a Professional Pitcher. He is going under the Radar like De grom, hope he has the same results as De  grom

rico
rico

bring him up and give him a taste.


I bet the will

Gilad Guez
Gilad Guez

While his ERA is pretty bad (4.85), his FIP is actually solid (3.79). Since he throws a heavy ball and generates a lot of grounders, he could be suffering from bad defense behind him more than anything (.380 BABIP). HR rate is high for him, but average-ish for the PCL. K/9 and BB/9 are both still strong (9.8 and 3.0 respectively). If you need more evidence, his last several starts have been very good, indicating that he is playing up to his peripherals (expected as the sample size increases).

For reference, Taijuan Walker (SEA), had roughly the same ERA (4.81), higher FIP (5.31), and still is holding his own on the MLB level for a playoff contender. 


Conclusion: Bring him up!

truth77
truth77

I am more excited in seeing the two Matts Reynolds and Bowman.Noah going to be real good but these two are playing lights out .Reynold is hitting 340 he stole another Two bases last night that would give him 20-25 average for a full season not bad for a kid that scouts said has average speed.Bowman has pitched a lot better then Noah lets see what Bowman is all about.

Nick Congello
Nick Congello

It really sucks that the Wilpons debt is killing the mets chance at competing. It's so obvious that only a couple of shrewd moves could make them a playoff contender. If they don't sign Tomas and trade for a ss this offseason then nothing is going to change for awhile.

nagel100
nagel100

trade thor for Joc.


L.A. will never be able to move Kemp or Crawford unless they eat a ton of money and Joc is ready now.

drmetfan
drmetfan

I don't get it. Don't the Mets have to add him to the 40 man roster before the rule 5 draft this year? Why wait until then and not do it now and promote him??? He needs to come up and experience what is like pitching in the major leagues. This will only be good for his development.

Steve
Steve

I could get on board with this, if they felt being in NY in Sept would hamper his development.


However, saying he can't come up due to a "roster crunch" when said roster has led to yet another sub-.500 season is laughable.

spelletrader
spelletrader

The management takes a whiz by committee.

Kevin Dailey
Kevin Dailey

I don't get how this is a debate? He's likely going g to make the team next year so why not let him get a few weeks of big league experience before that.

Joshua A. Lamb
Joshua A. Lamb

He is almost at his innings limit. Let him finish the season at AAA. Then let him come into spring training and fight for a spot in the rotation.

Steve C Schumacher
Steve C Schumacher

Heck yeah! Let him get a taste of the big time and get acclimated to the team.Tired of the same old retreads like Brown, Abreu etc. Lets see some of the young guys with potential like Syndegaard, Reynolds or even Herrera or Nimmo (although both of these will be in AA pplayoffs.).Heck even Matz - lets see the future for a change rather than the tired old past!

Kevin Stearns
Kevin Stearns

Get him the hell out of Las Vegas. Pitchers go there to die

Brian P. Mangan
Brian P. Mangan

@Brian Kalinka My understanding is that the 40-man roster isn't maxed out at the moment, so they could add Noah without exposing anyone.

Brian P. Mangan
Brian P. Mangan

@metjetnet Harvey's "Look In His Eyes" ("LHE") rating last year was a phenomenal 62 last year per Fangraphs.  Wheeler's LHE was mediocre in the early going, but since the All-Star break his LHE has skyrocketed. 

We don't have minor league data for LHE so I'll take your word for it.

elcondor
elcondor

Yeah, needs to work on his command in the Minors. Bring him up middle of June if his performance dictates it

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@loopenark I think he needs a little more minor league seasoning, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he's not "close." Next year should be his "Wheeler in '13" or "Harvey in '12" season. A couple months in AAA to show he's really surpassed the level (ntm protected his Super 2 status), and a late June/early July call-up.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@matmil Eh, there was hype for Wheeler too, and he's working out I'd say.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@Gilad Guez I don't even think it's the infield defense so much as it's just he pitches in Vegas, which is like playing on concrete.

Brian P. Mangan
Brian P. Mangan

@Gilad Guez Yep!  That 2.95 ERA and 10.9 K/9 over his last seven starts in the PCL is promising as heck. He turns 22 on Friday.

Taijuan Walker is actually an excellent comp.  They're only 15 days apart in age and Syndergaard has been better at every level.

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

You're more interested in seeing Matt Reynolds?...who more then likely will be lucky to have a career as a utlity man?  Suure..

Brian P. Mangan
Brian P. Mangan

@truth77 Matt Bowman has been a pleasant surprise, but only has 4 starts in Triple-A.  I'm really excited to see that he has turned out so well - wasn't expecting much from a 12th rounder.

matmil
matmil

Your right this off season is do or die for this franchise. If nothing happens they'll be playing in front of 2000 people a game. Unless they do concerts every night. Then they'll get 3000.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@Nick Congello With the deal Castillo just got for the Sox, I think Tomas is now out of their price range. Which sucks, b/c he'd be the perfect fit in LF for this team. But they just can't afford to overpay for guys like that, unfortunately.....

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@drmetfan Couple of reasons not to promote him. The main one, knowing this team, is to protect his Super 2 status. But another would be to give him a chance to pitch in the PCL playoffs, which honestly might be more interesting than what's going on in Flushing in September. And it's also not like he's been lights out in AAA. I know his peripherals have been impressive, but he still has pitched to a 4.85 ERA and an 8-7 record (on a very good AAA team). I know he's pitching in a hitter's league, and in the most hitter-friendly park in that league. But so did Zack Wheeler in his last stint in the minors, and he pitched better than that out there before they promoted him.

elcondor
elcondor

Why because the "Scouts" say that and you parrot it. Same Scouts didn't like Abreu and told us d'arnaud was a good defensive Catcher while my eyes tell me he can't catch or throw. Watch Matt Reynolds for a month and decide on what you see.

vimets
vimets

Logan Verrett has also pitched very good for 51's.

Nick Congello
Nick Congello

Which is ridiculous this is a NY sports team. They haven't overpaid for anybody in years so the time to do so is now.

Nick Congello
Nick Congello

Not a bad idea but if the mets trade Thor I think it should be for a proven bat.

drmetfan
drmetfan

@Eddie_Dean I agree with you on having him pitch in the playoffs. However, last year he pitched in the playoffs for Vegas and did not fare too well. I know he has not been lights out this year but I think we can ignore some of those numbers a little bit. Harvey and Wheeler did not have stellar numbers in Vegas and they have turned out to be very good MLB pitchers.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@drmetfan @Eddie_Dean Harvey never pitched in Vegas, so I won't compare his numbers. Wheeler did though, and while his numbers weren't spectacular, his ERA was still almost a full run lower than Thor's, and his WHIP was a .25 lower. Also, I don't think he (Thor) pitched in Vegas at all last year. Binghamton playoffs maybe?

Nick Congello
Nick Congello

They didn't majorly overpay for Granderson. The mets should be able to bid 10 million more than any other team just to make sure they get Tomas.

Eddie_Dean
Eddie_Dean

@Pete Brilvitch @Brian P. Mangan @Nick Congello Chris Young was overpaid, but it wasn't for the kind of years or dollars we're talking about. And I disagree that Granderson was really overpaid. I thought his contract fit his market value at the time pretty closely. He's just underperformed, unfortunately. They may have given him an year extra than anyone else would've, but I don't think his per year salary was any higher than he'd of gotten somewhere else. This kid Tomas, on the other hand, I think is going to get somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-30% more than the scouting reports out there on him would dictate, simply b/c he's the latest import from Cuba.