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Mets have top 5 farm system

The Mets have the fourth-best farm system in baseball, according to a revised, mis-season list by ESPN’s Keith Law (ESPN.com, July 22).

“The Mets have graduated a few prospects to the majors (Travis d’Arnaud and Jacob deGrom), but nearly all of the guys still in the system have taken steps forward,” says Law, who is a senior baseball writer for ESPN.com former executive for the Blue Jays. “They still have a ton of arms but are heavier on bats at the corners than in the middle infield or center.”

The Cubs, Twins, Astros and Pirates round out Law’s Top 5.




272 comments
Bryan McEntee
Bryan McEntee

We've come along way from the days when Jorge Toca and Eric Cammack were our top prospects

John G Oleon
John G Oleon

The angels need pitching I would love Cron , this seems like a match to me. A pitcher and Dude for Cron? I think with Tejada and Flires in the middle makes is much better. Murph can be trades for another OF

Chris Biehl
Chris Biehl

Their farm system is legit, foolish not to believe it

semperfi
semperfi

A few years back we had one of the worse MInor league systems and now to have a top 5 with the depth in SP that we have is a great accolade for Sandy and his group, where the Mets need immediate help is on the bench, TC is not the guy to coach the young talent, Wally is much better suited for this

Art Dockerty
Art Dockerty

If this team is going to contend next year they need the following:  a first baseman who will hit 35-40 HRs and drive in 100-110. Forget about OBP and hard hit balls.   A shortstop who can hit .260-270 and hit 10 HRs and drive in 60 runs...no more singles hitters.  A left fielder who will hit 30-40 HRs and drive in 110-120 runs.  We are sliding into Sandy's dwelling of high OBP and taking strikes.  We have to tools to trade for these things and if we just went to 125-130 million we would be so much better.

John Cucci
John Cucci

Some met fans will invariably find a way to spin this negatively.

C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

Congratulations to Sandy.  Farm teams are the commodity by which teams improve their talent on the ML level either by cultivating that talent or trading it away for established players.  In this day of buying players through their arbitration years, thus shrinking the FA pool, you can never have too many quality prospects.  That said, if the Mets finish in 4th or worse again this year, Mr. Alderson should be relieved of his duties by October 15th.  

The ML ballclub...the main revenue generator for this entire organization, has been mediocre bordering on moribund for his ENTIRE tenure.  I have said it since he came on board, he needed a plan that addressed both the farm system AND the big club.  NYC isn't a place to stop all forward motion and do a rebuild.  He came armed with a plan just to fortify the farm system, and shoved it down our collective throats.  He finishes in 4th three of his 4 years as GM but expects the fanbase to pat him on the back and say great job with the farm system?  This while having possible the most experienced team of assistant GMs in the NL?  

Dave D'Agnese
Dave D'Agnese

i think its time to trade murphy. i hope his value to others teams isnt decreasing. we have enough prospects in the minors who could fill in at second base (flores, reynolds, herrera) but we dont have any depth at SS. The writing is on the wall. Its time to try and trade Murph, Colon, and Gee and try to get areas of need filled for next season while evaluating the young talent we currently have. Please stop playing chris young and bobby abreu types that wont even be here next year. we arent winning so its time to see what we have now rather than waiting till next season and starting slow yet again. we are in prime position to evaluate now and then make the moves this off season to put us over the top to really be a threat next season. lets make it happen sandy

chiescuela
chiescuela

I'm sure that he considered them when he made his evaluation, but the fact that Law can describe the Mets as a top 5 farm system without mentioning Flores, Matz, Herrera, Puello, Montero, Dom Smith and Andrew Brown (I kid, I kid), is actually encouraging. 

Jay Cross
Jay Cross

I remember listening to Sandy's first interview after he was hired back in 2010. What endeared me the most was when he said the Mets should never have a middle of the pack farm system.

It took a while, but now the Mets have a top five system for the first time since...when? The 80's? And without ever having a top five draft pick? 

That's pretty awesome. At this point, having gone this far, I'm willing to be a little more patient and trust that it will pay off in the majors. 

nymetsrule
nymetsrule

And bottom 5 MLB team. At some point, we need to win where it matters.

Chaz
Chaz

I agree Dave 42 hope they promote him soon he's showing great progress.

dave42
dave42

Is there any chance Dom Smith gets up to St. lucie this year? I know the plan is not but he's hitting .330 since mid-April. Surely he doesn't have anything left to do in Low-A?

Sean Matrai
Sean Matrai

and the 26th worst mlb team in baseball

Nice job posting the mobile link, you mouth-breather.

John G Oleon
John G Oleon

But we went to WS because we used some of those assets in trades.., so it does matter to have a farm system.

Person for Olerud, the Piazza trade, Burnett for Leiter, Everett for Hudsk , Hudak for Harris, Hundley for Cedeno, finally Cedeno and Dotel for Hampton then signing Pratt, yoshii, Ventura, Henderson, Hershiser, Zeile

Farm system starts all this out

dave42
dave42

@sandybgone  well certainly a lot of those guys didn't pan out, but by 97 they were an 88-win team and by 2000 they were in the WS.  Hurt to fall short and then fade back into Bolivia (as Mike Tyson said).

chiescuela
chiescuela

I'm not saying it's a exact science, but prospect evaluation has come a long way in 20 years. If you look back at the last five or six years, the teams that have consistently had the well ranked farm systems have had a good amount of success. Look back at the lists, you'll see the Rays, the Rangers, the Braves, the Reds and the a's toward the top. Does it guarantee success? Of course not. But it's a good sign at the very least.

Jayson Love
Jayson Love

@sandybgone Thats exactly the way you utilize a farm system.  a couple guys make an impact and you deal off a couple chips for an impact player.  Im not saying ignore the farm system or go for total farm system development, You need a balance.  You can look at anyone's top 10 from any year 10 years ago plus and you will see just how few "top prospects" make an impact.  Hate to break it to the people who think we shouldnt deal anyone of our prospects or pitchers but there is simply no way Havey, Wheeler, Syndegard, Montero, nimmo, conforto, Matz, plaweki, herrera and puello all pan out.

Lee Mandarino
Lee Mandarino

@Art Dockerty Like the other posters said, those types of numbers don't exist in the post steroid era. Duda has actually been "good enough" this year. He's on pace for 25-30 HR and about 90 RBI. I don't think 1B is the issue, Duda is currently leading the team in OPS. They're missing a solid ML level left fielder, that can play everyday, and a shortstop that can contribute offensively. There's not many of them left anymore, that's the problem. 

dave42
dave42

@Art Dockerty  agree in general with the three areas of improvement.  Implied in what you say is that we're more or less set at basically every other position.  I'll add one more thing though:  we need a bench, and one that includes more than one back-up infielder and fewer than three back-up OF. 


By the way, Duda is currently the 11th ranked 1B in the majors in WAR.  If you add in Eric Campbell's 0.4 WAR, he nudges past Albert Pujols into 10th with a total of 2.2.  If they can get a big-time bat for either SS or LF, I'm good with Duda.  It may be that 1B is the easiest place to improve.  I feel like they need two of those three things you list, along with a real bench.

darkflyer
darkflyer

@Art Dockerty Not exactly asking a lot are you?

2013 1B who both hit 35 HR and had 100 RBI: Chris Davis (53, 138), Edwin Encarnacion (36, 104)

2013 SS who both hit 260 and 10 HR and had 60 RBI: JJ Hardy (.263, 25, 76), Troy Tulowitzki (.312, 25, 82), Ian Desmond (.280, 20, 80), Jed Lowrie (.290, 15, 75)

2013 LF who both hit 30 HR and had 110 RBI: does not exist (Alfonso Soriano led all LF with 101 RBI)

Eric Vierow
Eric Vierow

Not many guys in baseball hit for thoughs numbers anymore...25hr and 90-100 maybe more realistic to find. Lets hope though Art! Im with ya!

Bryan McEntee
Bryan McEntee

@C.K. Dexter Haven Five years from now when these guys are doing well in the majors and the Mets are in the playoffs every year you will be calling Sandy one of the best GM's the Mets ever had

chiescuela
chiescuela

I think my biggest issue with Sandy is how badly he has handled the money that he has had to spend. He's done great on the scrap heap, Marlon Byrd, Capuano, Hairston, Latroy Hawkins, dice - k, Abreu, carlos Torres . . . They've all made nice contributions. But every time he has given anyone a real contract, it's looked like a terrible deal. Francisco, Rauch, Colon, Granderson, . . . Young . . . each of those deals has been suspect at best.

jenkins
jenkins

@Dave D'Agnese yep. NOT playing Flores is completely unprofessional as an organization. It's also dumb as hell.

jmjmjm
jmjmjm

I agree with the sentiments of your post but it'll be much more difficult to keep the farm system this stocked in the coming years. They'll eventually stop trading away veterans for prospects and to some degree will trade prospects for veterans. The new international spending limits and draft bonus restrictions also make it more difficult for teams willing to invest more in player development than major league salaries. Hopefully Conforto is the last top 10 pick for a long time as well.

Kevin VanTassell
Kevin VanTassell

He's hit for a good average and shown some patience, but hasn't shown any power, or a big RBI bat yet, to be a big league firstbaseman he needs that, so give him his time where he is.

For_Sale
For_Sale

@dave42 They might want to keep him where he is because the big lights bright city of Port St. Lucie might derail his promising career.  But really, West Palm Beach is delightful.  

For_Sale
For_Sale

@Sean Matrai we are not the 26th worst team, we are the 22nd.  GIve SA a little credit.

dannym28
dannym28

@sandybgone francesa talked about this earlier. those were moves where you don't give up much for struggling players and you try and nurture them back to form. 

The Feels band
The Feels band

@sandybgone Don't you get that THIS is the way to set that up? What we're doing right now is a means to get to that place. 

semperfi
semperfi

Understand your comment but don't necessarily agree, Reyes,Wright, Murphy were all prospects that we gave a chance to and all have now been all stars and with Reyes and Wright possible future HOFers, Harvey is a more recent prospect that we chose to develop and not move and he was an all star in his rookie year. Gomez and Cruz were 2 homegrown talents that we did not keep and both have been all stars for other teams, I believe that you 1st try to develop your own talent and only move prospects for that piece that puts you over the top not because it gets you to being a .500 ball club.

Jay Cross
Jay Cross

@sandybgone I think that's an unfair way to grade Sandy, because it ignores the circumstances under which he was hired. Omar was different. Ownership gave him a clear mandate to spend money and win now. Sandy was hired in the opposite situation: to bring direction and a plan to a franchise that was hemorrhaging money.

The fact that our farm system is top five, I think, says way more about Sandy's regime thus far than his botched signing of Chris Young, or the Angel Pagan trade. Those were isolated moves in a much bigger game. 

Jay Cross
Jay Cross

@jmjmjm You raise good points, but I actually think this could be sustainable. One of the best strategies nowadays is taking one year "flyer" deals on players like CY (who, admittedly, is a bust) or Colin (who has been good) in order to flip them to desperate teams for a prospect or two. We could theoretically keep doing that even if we're good. 


Mark Swiss
Mark Swiss

@Kevin VanTassell He plays in a home stadium that is murder on left handed power bats.  Same thing happened to Nimmo last year.

dave42
dave42

He has hit a lot of doubles which is about all you're going to get from a young lefty in that ballpark.

dave42
dave42

Nice! I'm not sure how he could get to NY before 2016 anyway - he would have to rake all the way up...

mets74
mets74

@sandybgone @Sean Matrai My turn! 20th best in attendance!

chiescuela
chiescuela

If Sandy was a decent GM he would build a time machine and go back and grab Frank Robinson, Ted Williams and Cal Ripken in their prime. The fact that he hasn't just shows that he needs to go.

For_Sale
For_Sale

@dave42 I think the organizational philosophy is to keep these guys at each level for a full season.

Jay Cross
Jay Cross

@sandybgone I wont pass the buck. There's no question, Sandy botched the CY signing, the Pagan trade was awful, signing Frank Francisco was a complete bust...and my personal gripe, letting Reyes leave for nothing. That was absolutely inexcusable.

The ML team definitely matters -- ultimately. I'm just saying that Sandy was brought in here to do a total organizational overhaul, with the understanding that it would take a few years for the big league club to be good again. So if we grade Sandy poorly based purely on the major league won/loss record, we are losing sight of what the plan was.

If we finish under .500 this year, I will be pissed. If we aren't dramatically better in 2015, I will be even more pissed. Up to this point, I am okay with the job Sandy has done. 

Karl Leopold
Karl Leopold

@For_Sale @dave42 he is 18 and already playing against guys 2 or 3 years older than him.  Let him stay thee for a year and also start there next year.  Promote next season


C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

@Jay Cross  If i may jump in, you make some very valid arguments but i have a question:  If Sandy's sole responsibility is/was to revamp the organization first and foremost, doesn't that mean the Wilpons (and he) have no true understanding of what the fanbase wants?  

Not too many here pay money to see the prospects in Vegas or Savannah, so I do believe what we want counts for something.  It's now year 4 and because of the lack of ML level talent, for all intents and purposes, the Mets are 1 key player injury away from 2015 being yet another conceded season.  He had us "wait til next year" until this year, and then when Harvey got hurt, he told us to..."wait til next year".  Does he bear any accountability?

dave42
dave42

@Karl Leopold @For_Sale @dave42  He is 19 and seems to have solved low A.  His OPS by month:  .508, .758, .771 and .838.  Considering age and competition as well as ballpark, these are huge numbers.


I don't know what the right answer is.  I'm in favor of pushing guys, particularly guys who seem really talented.  And I understand the Mets say they like to leave guys at one level for a full season, but they said the same thing with Nimmo and he's in AA now, and Plawecki is in AAA. 

Jay Cross
Jay Cross

@C.K. Dexter Haven @Jay Cross I don't think the Wilpons or Sandy expect people to pay money or show up to see prospects in our minor league cities. Rather, the idea is for those prospects to become trade chips or major contributors on the next Mets playoff team...with the understanding that this would take time.

Why did they take this slow and steady approach? Because they have no money. Which sucks, and yes, they should sell the team. But since they steadfastly refuse to do so, this was the best strategy for the pitiful amount of money in their possession. 

Jay Cross
Jay Cross

@sandybgone @Jay Cross I'll go further -- I think Sandy is mistaken to keep playing Ruben Tejada while Flores rakes AAA pitching. In a season like this, with little on the line, we should be giving Flores his big league tryout to see what we have in him.

It's not that Sandy's been perfect. Far from it. I just trust his overall vision and strategy for the team, which I value more than any isolated move that did or didn't pan out. I am a Sandy guy, as you pointed out.

We'll see where it gets us!

Ronald Nyman
Ronald Nyman

Jay,

I am in agreement with you. Met fans seem to forget the mess Sandy walked into at the end of 2010. And Met fans seem to forget their own history. Prior to the 1980 season, the Mets hired Frank Cashen. And what was Cashen's first order of business? Build the minor league system with great pitchers. The Mets then went on to have four losing seasons 1980-83 while Cashen worked his magic. In 1983, he picked up Mex, 1985 the Kid, and you all know the rest of the story. By taking a deliberate approach and staying on plan, he made us fans happy for about 7 seasons.

Just remember what Cashen said at his first press conference in 1980, "We will win a championship, but it will take time." Important words to keep in mind.