It was a rough and eventful night for Jon Niese

Jon Niese tossed four shutout innings, then – with two outs in the fifth – surrendered three runs and the Brewers beat the Mets, 5-2, late Saturday night in Milwaukee.

In the top of the sixth inning, with two outs and the tying run at third, Terry Collins pinch hit Bobby Abreu for Niese, which resulted in the Brewers bringing in a left-handed reliever. Collins called Abreu back and went with right-handed hitter Eric Campbell, who struck out to end the inning.


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“He certainly deserved to go back out, but we’ve been having a tough time scoring,” said Collins, who had Niese batting eighth in the lineup. “So I thought he had to hit for him in the sixth.”

Niese is 0-2 with a 5.73 ERA in 11 innings and two starts since the All Star break and returning from the disabled list.

In Niese’s final frame, with two outs and the Brewers having yet to score a run, Chris Young let a ball drop in to center field, which he may or may not have been able to dive and catch. Naturally, a run scored…

“Them getting those runs with two outs is frustrating, they hit them where we weren’t,” Niese said.

Matthew Cerrone, Lead Writer

Look, had Juan Lagares been in center field – and not Young – that ball is likely caught and Niese may have escaped having let up no runs through five innings… In Young’s defense, if he dives – and the ball goes by him – who knows how things play out. Niese also didn’t have to lose 5 mph on his fastball and leave balls up in the zone. It was just a messy inning, including a pass ball. Niese looked annoyed on the mound after the run scored, and even seemed to throw a stink eye toward Young. His quote in this post could read as a snarky comment as well, but he may also be being genuine and obvious, it’s hard to tell…

Anyway, I’m confused by Niese’s arm. I really am? Is he hurt? If not, why the dramatic and sudden dip in velocity during the fifth inning? Why does that happen so quickly, after looking so good the first four frames? Did he lose focus after that first run? Maybe his arm strength is weak after missing a few starts while on the DL through the All Star bream? Or, maybe it’s some larger, chronic issue, which is why he was on the DL in the first place? I don’t know. I’m hoping Saturday was just…

By the way, had Niese been batting ninth and not eighth, he may not have had to be pinch hit for and maybe he gets a chance to go back and do well in the sixth inning, and the fifth is just a bad inning instead of a bad ending. For what it’s worth, this is why I don’t like hitting the pitcher eighth, because of situations like this. Because of it, Terry ended up burning three players in one spot where he may not have had to, not to mention it pulls Niese and fires up the bullpen earlier than it may have had to be used.




136 comments
Kenneth Meltsner
Kenneth Meltsner

The 'one bad inning' thing has been a problem with Niese his entire career. He tends to become unraveled when things go south. He used to have issues pitching with big leads but that is clearly not a problem with this particular squad.

Not4Nutten
Not4Nutten

With respect to Chris Young, Terry is being told what to do, just like they did to Manuel and Randolph, they didn't get dumb overnight, As long as the Wilcons run the Business, it makes no difference who plays, manages or GM the team, they will be told who to play, how to play them, where to play them and when to play them on a hourly basis.
And Dats Dat!!!!!!!

stage52
stage52

Has anyone seen  Cy ever dive for a ball?  No I thought not . The ball should have been caught and EYJ was already backing him up on the play.  CY made little effort to catch that ball and Niese was really pissed off because of it.

Not4Nutten
Not4Nutten

Both Niese and Gee are still recovering from whatever, they should not beat themselves up and go with the flow, Next Year is our Year and that's what the Team should be working on!

Sal
Sal

Niese whined about the team shutting him down before the ASB and now he's making snarky remarks about his teammates.  As bad as Chris Young is, he's still wearing the same uniform. 


Niese seems unhappy right now.  I wouldn't be shocked at all if he's the first pitcher dealt.

Tim Gallagher
Tim Gallagher

Matt: I have no quarrel with your arguments. I am an original fan of this blog and read it two or three times a day. My quarrel is with your grammar. You switched tenses several times during this post. In some sentences, you wrote in present tense ("that ball is likely caught") and in other sentences you wrote in past tense ("had Niese been batting ninth"). Maybe I am just an old fart about grammar. But I have noticed this trend for the past few years with announcers, and now the athletes and coaches are doing the same thing. Please pick a tense and stick with it. You're a talented writer and clear-headed thinker. 


Now carry on. You are correct to worry about Niese and Collins' continuing use of Chris Young. I like your logic and the way you hold this team's feet to the fire. Fans play a role in demanding excellence from the franchise.



Opti-Mets-tic
Opti-Mets-tic

Has anyone else noticed that CY doesn't give some of the team mates, "high-five's", he never smiles to most of his team mates, and doesn't really seem to be a part of the team. Perhaps, that's why he didn't dive for the ball, and perhaps why Niese became so upset.

I'm just making observations, but from what I've seen, CY seems like one of those "all about me" guys, and not a team guy. It doesn't seem like the team is trying to alienate him, but rather, he's trying to alienate himself. And the lack of hustle, lack of desire, is all just evidence of that. He doesn't care.

Just a thought, probably wrong.

metsfanman
metsfanman

Sure the defense behind him didn't help anything, but I place the blame on the big inning yesterday largely on Niese. Even after the ball fell in front of CY and the ball got by d'Arnaud, the Mets were winning 2-1 with 2 outs, nobody on, and two strikes on the batter. There was no reason Niese couldn't have just relaxed and gotten through the inning. Mistakes are gonna happen behind you, you just have to shake them off, not give off bad body language, not show up your teammate (as he did when he when he looked with annoyance at CY), and not lose focus.

Pat Brady
Pat Brady

The ball feel in with NO OUTS not two outs. 


They have to address the issue of d'Arnaud's defense too. I've always been a supporter  of his even when everyone was bailing on him but that passed ball could have been blocked better. Running when the pitcher is up tells me that they don't respect his arm too? 

Pat Brady
Pat Brady

Batting the pitcher 8th just seems like a gimmick to me. It seems like something someone does when they're trying to prove their smarter than everyone else. I know the reasoning but in the end it doesn't add up to being a net positive. At the end of the year how many extra AB's does your pitcher have? How many times did you end up pulling your pitcher before you wanted to like Collins did here? 



Richard Alicea
Richard Alicea

I don't know about you all, but I much rather see young kids giving it all they have then signed rejects trying to resurrect their careers on our team.

Nicholas Vargas
Nicholas Vargas

I haven't seen Chris Young make an attempt to dive for a fly ball all year. What is it with him, lack of hustle?

Joe Paulson
Joe Paulson

Niese is a mixed bag.  He's really a middle of the rotation guy.  Nice to have, but flawed.  He's wound pretty tight at times.  Long term, he has been an asset, but at times he struggles.  You deal with it. 

Brian P. Mangan
Brian P. Mangan

You people are so angry at the sub-par play of this team that you get mad at the dude who hit two doubles and walked yesterday?  Get a grip!

mack
mack

Enough of Chris Young : It was a mistake, live with it, lets really see if Juan Lagares is the answer - stop babying him - let Flores play every game till the end of the year, see if he can be your ss or second baseman of the future

MetsFan1962
MetsFan1962

Everything seemed to change with Niese when CY let the ball drop in front of him. He certainly looked like he made no effort the catch the ball and Niese showed his reaction to it.  Lagares should have been in the line-up. Trying to showcase CY at this point is hopeless..

Richard Alicea
Richard Alicea

Guys I would like to start a petition on FB for the commissioner to intervene in this mess of a team...I will formulate a letter that everyone can use; sign it and send to the commissioner maybe something will be done...it's time to use social media to our advantage...

upstater
upstater

what's to be confused? Niese's arm has been like this every year. There is a pattern.

a) TC is again demonstrating that he has NO knowledge of statistics.  Only a moron bats the pitcher 8.  He's giving the opposite team extra outs without even knowing it.   What the h*ll is he thinking?  Oh, that's right, he's not.   WOULD SOMEBODY IN THE FRONT OFFICE AT LEAST PUT A PERSON WITH KNOWLEDGE OF BASIC STATISTICS IN THE DUGOUT?   It is so frustrating to see ex-jocks try to 'eyeball' strategies which should be purely informed by probability.    Please stop this;

b) The CY experiment has to end.  For the love of God, let's cut him loose.  He's a liability in center field, and can't hit anymore.   We have a large enough sample size; 

c) And while we're at it - time to drop the other Young as well.    You can't steal first base.    

Matt Drucker
Matt Drucker

I swear TC has a love affair with certain players. They could go 0-50, but if they show any sign of life they get multiple games in a row. Then you have players he seemingly hates. The player could go 4-4 with 4hrs or 0-4 with 4'ks and the result would be the same.

nhmetsfan
nhmetsfan

Over /Under on called strike 3s  today with this lineup?  6

Hunting for strikeouts

Great organizational philosophy

Kenneth Meltsner
Kenneth Meltsner

@Not4Nutten You are absolutely correct. Why else would we be forced to endure a chronically-ineffective Chris Young for two-thirds of a season. Especially when you have a perfectly capable guy batting ONE HUNDRED POINTS HIGHER to play LF. Look for the obligatory TC comment about CY 'starting to find his stroke.' Like he did in the 8th inning today.

Daniel Thomas
Daniel Thomas

@Tim Gallagher Sorry to call you out, brother, but inspired by your doing so, I now feel compelled to point out that your understanding of tenses is confused. The example you use to demonstrate Matt's ignorance of language, 'had Niese been batting ninth..." is not a sentence written in the past tense. It's written in the past perfect continuous. We use the past perfect continuous to show that something started in the past and continued up until another time in the past. That other time in the past is a crossroads of events that could have then proceeded, which approaches subjunctive territory. Matt, then, does what most ballplayers do--as discussed in this thread--and uses the present tense to call into question what could have happened had Niese been batting ninth. Same idea as the example, "If I make that catch, we win the game," referenced somewhere below. 


Point is: Matt isn't exactly right but he's not exactly wrong either, and though your thesis is one that almost everyone would agree with, that is, that we all would like to see Metsblog writers use our language properly, your example is inaccurate and makes you look silly calling someone else out for being silly, magnified by the fact that you call yourself a lover of language, when in reality this entire argument is silly and, yes, I'm now purposely adding to the silliness. 


Cool. 

Anna Johnson
Anna Johnson

@Tim Gallagher This isn't a recent thing--it's been going on since the 80s at least (as far as I can remember) that baseball players love to talk about a game that just ended in the present tense. Aside from switching tenses, this always struck me as odd in itself. "If I catch that ball, the inning's over and we're up three runs." They all do it--I wonder why?

@Tim Gallagher The thing that's irritating is that it would be easy to fix this problem.  If he just had someone proofread his writing before posting it, he wouldn't look so unprofessional.  

hankypanky
hankypanky

Sums it up. Pointing out that Niese gets rattled isn't the hate mail that some bloggers describe it as. Niese is what he is, no more, no less.

1harris1
1harris1

@#FreeWilmer  Same dude who misplayed a ball in CF that led to a run yesterday.  Same dude hitting .200 for the season.  Please, already.

Frank Accardi
Frank Accardi

Google this the man that saved the mets its about Doubleday and how he rescued the mets and what really happened great read ! Your realize how selig got in through and the other owners such as the white sox and others and the wilpons think about it when there was the madoff mess the summoned Mario cuomo who dug them out all while the commissioner supported them they are politically connected they should have been booted

MetsFan1962
MetsFan1962

@Richard Alicea . . . the commissioner is part of the problem. Selig approves how Sandy and the Wilpons run the Mets.

Richard Alicea
Richard Alicea

@imjimmybx  if that's the case then he should quit or speak up that it's not his doing since he's taking all the flack...SA needs to go along with COLLINS.

Brian P. Mangan
Brian P. Mangan

Basic statistics actually say that you SHOULD bat your pitcher 8th.  If you have a legitimate hitter 9th, he's more likely to get on base and be driven in by the top of the lineup than the pitcher would be.

Richard Alicea
Richard Alicea

I'm with you on giving the boot to the two useless YOUNGS, but degrom batting 8th is a no brainer as he's a better contact hitter than TEJADA...fact is I'd like to see him lead off, that's how poorly this team is constructed.  CY and EY JR will be with us for the remainder as SA wants to punish the fan base...

1harris1
1harris1

@sandybgone  I guess the word is that they "promised" him a certain number of ABs.  What happens when the guy you made such a "promise" to turns out not to be a capable major league ball player? 


I just can't get over how ridiculous this situation has become.  Forget about Tulowitzki.  If they can't eat Chis Young's contract, they're not going to trade for a guy due 100 plus million over the next five years.

Tom K
Tom K

@mets2death Not to mention we're paying all that money to Granderson to be a leadoff hitter. We need a shortstop, a leadoff hitter, and a catalyst on the bases and we let the best one get away for nothing...

Matt Drucker
Matt Drucker

I really do despise TC. CY gets two meaningless doubles and he's back in there. Not to mention in the past month he's done nothing. Plus, his defense is beyond awful. TC and Aldy could play all these cute games, but they are only following themselves.

Sal
Sal

@kingman76 @Sal Fair point.  Guessing he wouldn't be upset if he got moved.

Tim Gallagher
Tim Gallagher

@Anna Johnson @Tim Gallagher @mr met Thanks for the support. And I didn't realize how long it's been happening. I don't want to dis Matt too much. I love this blog and I am so happy for its and Matt's success. I just love the language and want to see it used appropriately. 

mr met
mr met

@Richard Alicea @imjimmybx Why?  Most of us do what our boss tells us to do, even though we think it is BS.  He is just making 1 million a year, the only difference.

lindro88
lindro88

If you were Collins would you quit and stop getting paid? He's never going to get another manager job, so this is the most money he'll ever make.

MetsGoLetsGo
MetsGoLetsGo

@#FreeWilmer So why not just roll with 2 "lead off" hitters at the top of the order and move everyone down a spot? Keeps the pitcher with minimum at-bats in the 9 spot while getting that same benefit of getting more people on base for the meat of the order.

lindro88
lindro88

The first double was not meaningless. Just saying. He was the tying run with 1 out

Joe Paulson
Joe Paulson

@Matt Drucker I did not see it but think when a writer at Met Blog says that Chris Young's suspect defense might have cost them a game, it's notable. Gary Cohen is notably vocal about playing the guy.  For the second time at least, he in effect called him a substandard player (bluntly calling him that last night) & wondering if he is being forced into the line-up ... perhaps to show him to other teams around the trading deadline.


... and Gary suggested the pressure might be coming from higher up.  Yet again, hating on Terry Collins seems a bit misplaced. 

1harris1
1harris1

@Joe Paulson  That's a good point you make with Collins.  I'm not sure CY playing regularly of late is ultimately his call.


I saw where somebody wrote that he was not happy with the recent roster decision involving Kirk and Wilmer.  He also hasn't seemed himself when watching him speak during the post game pressers over the last few days (seems agitated).