USATSI_7340314_110579513_lowres

Dillon Gee has been rock solid the last 11 months

Dillon Gee is 14-9 with a 2.86 ERA in his last 26 starts, during which he has 122 strike outs in 176 innings.

He struck out three and held the D-Backs to three hits through seven shutout innings in a win over Arizona on Wednesday.

He retired the first 14 batters he faced.

Matthew Cerrone, Lead Writer

It’s easy to forget Gee, given hype around Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler, Noah Syndergaard, Rafael Montero and others. Yes, he’s kind of vanilla. He’s quiet and mild. He’s not great at any one thing. However, he’s been effective and super consistent. He’s the perfect mid-rotation guy, under contract through 2016, earning half of what he’d probably get on the open market. He has an ERA under 4.00 through more than 500 career innings, yet he is often overlooked. He may not be a diamond, but there’s value in him being just a really good rock.

 




168 comments
Olerud42
Olerud42

I do not understand these comments about trading Wheeler. Not that I'd be against it for the right piece, but I don't understand why people dislike him. He pitched 100 innings to a 3.42 ERA last year and was a very big prospect. What's not to like it?

Olerud42
Olerud42

Yeah, he's been a solid middle of the rotation pitcher for us.  Good job Gee.

Peter Ramirez
Peter Ramirez

Gee is the guy you can't trade because other teams don't value him as highly as you do, but you're more than happy to hold onto because he constantly exceed expectations and is consistent year over year. The Mets best bet to acquire a bat at this point may be to hope for an effective full season out of Niese and move him during the offseason. With our pitching depth, Niese's inability to stay healthy/finish a season strong, and his team friendly contract, he would make the most sense of all of our starters to move, provided he can prove his health and rebuild value.

mystere24
mystere24

With this depth of pitching talent, a big time trade this winter, pitching for hitting, seems inevitable.

gloveman
gloveman

You say perfect mid rotation guy. I say that's selling him short. He may not have the "stuff" of a number 1, but I've seen those with #1 stuff pitch like they are #2 (yes that #2) Gee's head is top of the rotation. He knows how to use what he has better than most.

queva
queva

Gee is an outstanding pitcher, along with Wheeler, Niese, Mejia and, next year, Harvey--the Mets could have the best pitching staff in the National league. Throw in Noah Syndergaard and Rafael Montero, and the Mets could have the best pitchers in the major leagues.

flmetsfan
flmetsfan

...and a real nice guy to talk to as well.  A couple of years ago, my wife and I did one of those Spring Training Packages.  One part of the package was a meet and greet.  Besides getting a chance to speak to a very hung over Tim Teufel, we got a chance to meet Gee.  Terrific guy, very quite and unassuming, but love pitching.  I don't know if I would want a team with a rotation of five Gees, but one or two in the rotation would be great.

C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

Read all the posts on this topic..interesting thread.  Thoughts:


I think in the same instance some of you are grossly undervaluing the ability to pitch 6 strong innings, while also overvaluing Gee's presence as the opening day starter this year.  While an honor to do so, it was barely meritorious.  Dillon gee is what he is.  A faster working Steve Trachsel on Steve's best day.  Gee is not a front of the rotation guy, he's a back of the rotation guy.  As such, he is probably better than most.  The farcical QS stat was created with guys like Gee in mind.  Now, with the Mets embarrassing wealth of young starting pitching, I can't see Gee being here long term.  However 6 innings or not, his stats can not be ignored.  Opposing GMs probably won't make him the main piece in a trade request, but his value has risen in the last season.  I'm not sure that can be argued.

JimmyBX182
JimmyBX182

Harvey, Syndergaard, Montero, Gee and Mejia. 


This would be my starting 5 going into next year. I wouldn't have an issue trading Niese, but I would definitely keep him around, because injuries do occur. 

hankypanky
hankypanky

Starting with Kevin Scott questioning the need for a lefty in the rotation and the subsequent conversations that followed (below), this has been one of the best examples of what this blog should be all about. It's depressing reading the personal attacks by illiterates on this blog, and it's rewarding to see the blog being put to good use.

JimmyBX182
JimmyBX182

Anyone considering trading Matz is insane. His stuff is too good to simply just give away. People need to remember he missed 2 years because if TJ surgery. The Mets are going to fasttrack him if he does well in the minors this year. He bears watching not trading.

JimmyBX182
JimmyBX182

Easily one of the most underrated and under appreciated Met. When healthy, he's a pretty good. Keep him away from cold weather however. 

dave42
dave42

In his last 26 starts, Gee has failed to go at least 6 innings exactly twice - when he went 5 and 5 2/3.  Would it be great if he could give you 7-8 every time?  Sure, but a 2.86 ERA and a 1.11 WHIP over 176 innings is not a small sample size.  He is much better than I thought when I first saw him (and second, and third).  I'll be thrilled next year when he's our #5 starter behind Harvey, Niese, Wheeler and Syndergaard. 

Ed Kalegi
Ed Kalegi

"Dillon Gee has been rock solid the past 11 months."

Yeah....that two hit shutout of the Columbus Blue Jackets in late December was incredible.

TheJMan
TheJMan

Harvey, Syndegaard, Montero, Niese, Mejia

Trade Wheeler or Gee with Pawlecki and Matz for a bat

Chad Snaider
Chad Snaider

@Olerud42  i like wheeler and still believe in him. if he learns to control all of his pitches i think hell be very good.

JimmyBX182
JimmyBX182

@C.K. Dexter Haven  I would temper any classifications for Gee until this season is over. This guy is better than a lot of us give him credit for. If I'm trading anybody this offseason, it's a guy like Wheeler. GM's will still give us more for him. Since I think Wheeler is the guy who won't turn out better than Montero, Syndergaard and Mejia, I think it's a safer bet trading him. 

C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

@JimmyBX182  Not sure if you see it, but I've been getting the impression that Sandy is trying to follow the Tampa Bay model...keep the hard throwing youth, and trade the vets approaching 30/31.  In that vain, whether you like him or not (and I think it's obvious you don't) Wheeler is going to be in the rotation while guys like Gee and Niese and Parnell (obviously Colon) are going to be moved.  

Kevin Scott
Kevin Scott

@JimmyBX182 keep in mind there is a difference between trading him away and giving him away.

Donald L. Smith Jr
Donald L. Smith Jr

@TheJMan   I actually had similar thoughts.  However, I was thinking of moving Niese.  Considering the little arm "ailments" I believe something big is going to happen to him soon.  

C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

@JimmyBX182 . Because?  Pre nor post surgery has Gee ever been a guy to throw CGs or 115 pitches in a game, and he's certainly not a live arm.  But if you put him up vs. other teams' #4 or #5 you'll come out ahead more times than not.  Is your expectation that Gee IS going to become Maddux?  I don't see that.    i think you're kidding yourself if you think Sandy doesn't see Wheeler in the future Met rotation much more than Gee.  besides, Wheeler was Sandy's signature move to this point.  The move he's openly lauded for. He's not gonna cash that in unless it nets him a bona fide star bat

JimmyBX182
JimmyBX182

@C.K. Dexter Haven  I don't know about that. Difference between us and Tampa is they have sticks and we don't. If Wheeler can secure us a big bat, that's the guy with the biggest hype and worst of the group between Mejia, Montero and Syndergaard. 

JimmyBX182
JimmyBX182

@weaponlex  If the Mets find a team willing to move a slugger because he earns too much, or is going to, you have to make that move if they take Wheeler as the main chip. We have spots on the field that require serious improvement. 

stage52
stage52

@Donald L. Smith Jr @TheJMan I have thought for several seasons now that Niece has hit the wall for him. Although he is cheap and a lefty I think we have seen the best from him.  He does not seem to be improving and seems to always come up with something to stop his progress. I like him but seeing what is coming up in the near future makes me think we should trade him for a position player.  Don't ask me who because I have nobody in mind at this time.

JimmyBX182
JimmyBX182

@C.K. Dexter Haven You're underestimating Gee. I'm not saying he's going to be Maddux, but I am saying he's improving. He's reaching his prime. Just because Wheeler was his signature move doesn't mean you're married to Wheeler for life. That's preposterous thinking. 

C.K. Dexter Haven
C.K. Dexter Haven

@JimmyBX182 . Well... isn't that how they got the sticks? Trading their vet SPs who were just south of 30 yrs old?

JimmyBX182
JimmyBX182

@hashburry  Syndergaard and Montero are going to be big time starters in this league for a LONG time. If you think they're not, you haven't been paying attention. 

JimmyBX182
JimmyBX182

@BringBackDaveTelghe @dave42 @Donald L. Smith Jr  That's exactly what I called Gee when I first saw him. His stuff moves like Maddux's. The difference between the two is Gee's change up against lefty hitters isn't as drop dead good as Maddux's was. Lefties could never size up his heater, because the change was falling off the plate. If Gee could ever master that pitch against lefties, he would be lights out.

dave42
dave42

@metsfan36 I wasn't trying to overlook the fact that lefties are better at getting lefties out, I was trying to say that having a lefty in the rotation "just to mix things up" is hard to measure. 


If Niese was in a rotation of 2-3 other lefties, would he be less effective because a given team would be used to seeing the ball from that side?  Most teams, if they have more than one lefty in the rotation, will try not to pitch them back-to-back.  Why?  To give a different look.


That's the comparison I was making with pitching Dickey and Harvey back-to-back - the theory is that they make each other more effective because they're so different.  Does it make them better pitchers?  It is difficult to measure. 

metsfan36
metsfan36

I wouldn't compare putting Harvey after dickey to lefty/righty bc the knuckleball is a completely unique situation. Furthermore, the same way teams have lefties much better against righties, they also have righties who are better against lefties so it kind of cancels out; and teams aren't gonna shift their rotation to make sure a lefty is facing a certain team. Bottom line is you gotta go with your best 5 when dealing with starters

Kevin Scott
Kevin Scott

@hashburry @Kevin Scott@TheJMan@Donald L. Smith JrMy main point is just that good is better than bad, regardless of hand.


First, we don't know if the theory that having a lefty a day after a right makes a difference.


Second, if it does work, it would only impact two games if the lefty starts game one of a series (20% of the time) and would only impact one game of a series if he starts the second game.


So assuming the theory has an impact, 60% of the series will have no impact at all since the lefty either won't start during the series or will start the 3rd game.  20% of the time there would be an impact for 2 games and another 20% of the time there will be an impact for 1 game.  


I just think there are too many variables to know that it matters at all, which is why I prefer overall talent over handedness.

hashburry
hashburry

@Kevin Scott @TheJMan @Donald L. Smith Jr  The lineup gets too comfortable when you never throw a lefty.  I'll admit a good righty is more appealing than a bad lefty.  But a good lefty is much more valuable than an average righty.  Nice to have a tough lefty go up against a team like the Phillies from a few years ago.

dave42
dave42

@stemog @Kevin Scott@TheJMan@Donald L. Smith Jr I think the counter-argument is if your best 5 starters are all righty, they should pitch.  For instance, if Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Montero and Gee are our best 5 next year, Niese would seem tradeable.  I'm not sure you keep Niese over any of those 5 just because he's lefty (and I like Niese).

stemog
stemog

@Kevin Scott @TheJMan@Donald L. Smith JrLefty vs. lefty is tougher than righty vs. righty, it just is. And there are some good lefty hitters, so obviously the idea is to try to make it tougher on them once in a while. Throw all righties at a good lefty hitter like, say Votto, and he may hit .370 or .380.

dave42
dave42

@Kevin Scott @TheJMan@Donald L. Smith Jr fair question, and I don't think you NEED a lefty as such.  Theoretically, it makes it harder for the other team to get comfortable.  Similar to putting Dickey next to say Harvey in the rotation back in '12.  Of course, proving that statistically is difficult, like proving the effectiveness of "seeing better pitches" with a base-stealer on ahead of you, or a big bat protecting you in the lineup; or how much impact a manager makes on wins and losses...

Kevin Scott
Kevin Scott

@TheJMan @Donald L. Smith Jr 

Don't think I'm attacking you, but this is something I've been questioning for a while.  Why does having a lefty in the rotation, just for the sake of having one, help anything?

If there are two rotations, one with 5 righties of equal quality and another with the same 4 righties and 1 slightly lesser quality lefty, which would you prefer?  I would go with the best 5 pitchers without paying any mind to their handedness.


I know it's conventional wisdom to need a lefty in the rotation, I just don't understand why.  In the 5th inning of Bartolo Colon's next start, is it easier for him to get outs because Jon Niese pitched a few days earlier (most often to a different team altogether)?  Or is the outcome of that start completely independent of Niese's existence?  If I had to choose between one of those being true, I would lean towards Niese's presence in the rotation having zero impact on the outcome of any individual at bat during the other 4 games.

Keep in mind, bullpens are different because of matchups and strategy, but for starters, just focus on keeping the 5 best arms, the rest will sort itself out.