Comparing Stephen Drew and Ruben Tejada

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Read more: Chris McShane at Amazin’ Avenue




104 comments
Joseph
Joseph

I still think tejeda has the ability to be a decent starting SS.he's not going to be a all star. But he will be a effective starter.

Frank D
Frank D

I am not the biggest fan of Stephen Drew, but he brings us something that is very underrated, and that is consistency.  Not consistency in the traditional baseball sense, but consistency in his production from year to year.  Take away his freak injury in 2011 and part of 2012, and you can expect to have 10-15 homeruns, 60 rbis, and .260 average.  He probably won't give you more, but he most likely won't give you less.  There is a lot to be said for a player that can give you the same production year in and year out.


It also should be noted that Stephen Drew has the 12th best fielding percentage among shortstops.  Of ALL time.  While a shortstop might not bring you a championship, our offense clearly isn't coming from first base.  It doesn't matter where the stats come from, but they have to come from somewhere.  


So I say either sign Morales, sign Drew, or sign both.  But don't try to sell me on the team we have now,  because all we've done is replaced the offense that Byrd produced with Grandy (if Grandy has the same year Byrd did, we'd all be happy) and are trying to replace Harvey with Colon.  

krayzie
krayzie

Lagares

Murphy

Wright

Granderson

T Darnaud

C. Young

Stephen Drew

Ike Davis

Wheeler/Colon/Neise/Gee/Syndergard 

Robby Johnson
Robby Johnson

I could really care less whether or not they sign Drew.  He had a good season playing for the best team in baseball last year - good for him.  The previous two years he was complete trash.

I don't love Tejada or his mindset from last season, but I also recognize the fact that he's still young.  He's had 1 bad season in his past 3 - Drew has had 1 good season in his past 3.  Logic please?

And enough of this crap about Drew being a superior defender.  Neither guy is.  In fact, both guys dWAR numbers are pretty close in the past 3 seasons.

Again, I could care less if Tejada was cut tomorrow, but it's annoying how people make Drew out to be some Godsend.  Everyone chooses to measure him by his success with the best team in baseball rather than how awful he was when playing for teams similar to…the Mets.



methead
methead

Tejada stinks.  Period.  Overrated utility player.  

maxster
maxster

Rueben Tejada is the 1st ball player I have seen that does not have a single strength as a player. Not one. Can't hit, hit for power, weak arm, has no range, can't steal a base, can't field, can't bunt and hits one lazy pop up after another. Lagares can't hit, 1st base{take your pick}can't hit, the pitcher can't hit, C Young hasn't hit, and d'arneau hasn't hit. How in the world can you CARRY Tejeda. The bullpen is the least of our problems, get Drew. YOU CAN"T PLAY TEJADA!!!

sylow59
sylow59

A NEW LOW IN EFFORT! 

My 12 Year Old Basset Hound  - who spends 23.75 hours a day on the couch, does not have thumbs, no education whatsoever, and has yet to recognize any human word - could have given a better effort here.  Jeez. 

Mike Dell Italia
Mike Dell Italia

im sick of this war stat, i dont understand and i dont wanna understand, i go by eye test and stats, ruben tejeda is a dog

maxster
maxster

I don't care about cost, that's not my problem. ANYBODY is better than Tejada, therefore I want him. Met fans are conditioned to ALWAYS talk about money. We have become Wilpon Jr's and that's what they want. We have lowered expectations because our payroll will be bottom 6 in MLB this year. The Wilpons are swimming in Mets generated money which they divert to their loan payments. I want to pressure them to spend, spend ,spend or get out. I will not accomidate them by lowering my expectations but through my spending habits on the Mets insist they spend appropriately or bankrupt them. I want us to condition them and let or dissatisfaction be known.

dexx
dexx

For those of you who don't realize how good Stephen Drew is, compare his numbers to other SS, and remember that he is one of the best defensive SS in baseball.

dexx
dexx

It should also be noted that Drew fractured his leg and ankle on a play at the plate halfway through the 2011 season, which cost him the 2nd half of 2011, and 1st half of 2012.  Otherwise, 2011 & 2012 would look at lot like 2013.

Rich Colacino
Rich Colacino

Can we please stop using this FAKE war stat?????? 

Use your eyes and the normal stats which actually matter....Drew is better than Tejada but not at the cost of 12m to 1m......Pass on Drew, waste of money, cant hit good pitching, weak like his brother. I dont need a made up WAR stat to tell me this. Watch him play and stop listening to the talking heads and Boras.

Bryan McEntee
Bryan McEntee

Lets put in this way, there are 30 MLB teams. Ranking the SS 1 through 30, Tejada is #30. All 29 other MLB teams have a SS with more talent than Tejada. Nuff said

rico
rico

Tejada had a promising rookie season on a bad team, and then messed up going into his second season, so he's really yet to be a sophomore.  


Drew has had a career a large body of work.


Tejada has talent and potential but it's up to him to realize it.  



Frank D
Frank D

@krayzie What an awful lineup for several reasons.


1.  Lagares is not a leadoff guy.  He's a low on base guy with average speed.

2. D'Arnaud is absolutely hands down not a 5 hole guy.  Yes, he might progress into a 25 home run guy, but as of now, he's an unproven gap to gap hitter.

3. Ike Davis as your 8th hitter?  What?!  You will literally waste every one of his at bats and will never clear the pitcher.  


Also, Syndergaard will not be up until mid June.

lindro88
lindro88

I hope for the Mets sake TD ends up in the 5 hole.

Mike Dell Italia
Mike Dell Italia

@Robby Johnson drew was hurt during those years i believe, but if you look at all his healthy seasons, he was a could bet for 10 homers 60 rbis 260 avg 330 obp also i think hes a good bet for 15 triples in this ball park, hes also a very good defensive shortstop and he can give stability at an important position, Tejeda is a dog, bad attitude and has 0 pop 0 speed and is totally unproven.


I also like the fact thats Drew is coming off world series.  Hell prob be a good influence in the clubhouse and he will be the only player on the team that has won anything

lindro88
lindro88

Agree Drew isn't a star, but if he ends up having to take a 1 year deal from Boston, I'd give him two years. He's a better player than Tejada.

Frank D
Frank D

@methead Judging by the comments, I don't think anyone is rating him very high haha

Joe De Sr.
Joe De Sr.

Max,U forgot to mention Ruebens lousy attitude!

Joe De Sr.
Joe De Sr.

They are lazy, true, but fun to own.. Mine was named Otto...

Hank Lee
Hank Lee

I was waiting for ... "I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul" ... At the end

preplgm
preplgm

Is he really that good defensively? I never really saw him as the human highlight film. No sarcasm. All I see are bad offensive numbers but enlighten me.

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

@Rich Colacino Yeah, all the smart front offices are blowing off stats and instead have lots of eyes on everyone.  It's amazing how ignorant people can be of facts.

MMIAA
MMIAA

@Rich Colacino WAR what is it good for absolutely nothing say it again. WAR and other slobermetrics allows people who know nothing about baseball to talk about baseball. They don't even understand WAR is a useless stat in regards to whether a player is good or not. Remember range factor?? How dumb that one was.

nymetsrule
nymetsrule

@Rich ColacinoWAR isn't made up any more than BA or OBP%. It isn't an end all stat, it should be used in combination with other stats. While I don't agree that we should stop using it, we should definitely not look at it on its own.

dexx
dexx

@Bryan McEntee The Pirates need a SS, and they have 2 on their roster that are better than Tejada in Jordy Mercer & Clint Barmes.  That's not even counting their stud prospect Alan Henson.

nymetsrule
nymetsrule

@Bryan McEnteeTejada might be worse than some backup SS, so lets be fair to some of those backups and rate Tejada at 35.

MMIAA
MMIAA

@rico well said the people that just jump on Tejada really do not understand the game. He has a lot of talent is a very good defender better then Reyes could ever dream of being. Offensively he is a high OBP guy with no power. That's pretty much what you usually get out of a SS.

Frank D
Frank D

@preplgm He is 12th overall in history for SS Field %.  He's not flashy, which is good.  He makes solid plays and rarely messes up.  Also, you can expect 10-15 homeruns and somewhere around 60 rbis.  Also a .260 batting average.  It's not great, but those numbers would place him consistently in the top 10 for offensive shortstops.  


What he does is gives the Mets something you can expect.  Far too often we have project players just to see if they pan out.  There's something to be said about having reliable projections.  Also, for 2-3 years, even if you pay him 10 million, the risk is low.  

dexx
dexx

@preplgm And you cannot properly evaluate offensive numbers for SS, apparently as well.

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@BringBackDaveTelghe@Rich ColacinoIt's amazing how when someone doesn't understand something, or how it is calculated, doesn't want to look it up... they simply disregard it as useless.


My eyes tell me Tejada stinks.. and the stats last year back it up. My eyes told me for 2 years Tejada was good for 2 years... the stats back that up.

Hank Lee
Hank Lee

I played baseball at many levels.

I understand the game better than you.

I don't mind WAR.

dexx
dexx

@MMIAA@Rich Colacino It also allows people who don't understand to completely disregard defense, and just pretend they are playing video game baseball or fantasy league.

Frank D
Frank D

@nymetsrule @Rich Colacino  If there is a formula, then it can't be made up.  Even cut and dry stats like Batting average are misleading, because it lacks situational depth.  


I like sabremetrics because they try to quantify plays that matter.  WAR connects separate weights to 6 categories: 

  • Batting Runs
  • Baserunning Runs
  • Runs added or lost due to Grounding into Double Plays in DP situations
  • Fielding Runs
  • Positional Adjustment Runs- Difficulty of position, shortstop being the second most difficult based on the formula.
  • Replacement level Runs (based on playing time

The idea is that a player should be judged on the entirety of his ability.  This formula takes into account runs produced, runs scored, and runs saved and conveniently puts it into one number.  The final stat means how many wins does this player help add over the league average player at the position. 


Now remember, a war of 5 does not mean that a player single handedly won 5 games.  The WAR is a total over a whole season, so each game can be calculated separately.  The idea is to try to quantify how many games would they lose (or win) if the player were replaced for the whole season.  

foley
foley

@Nicholas Catalano @Bryan McEntee 


As stated by others..... this isn't an argument - I like your posts.... but the other 29 teams have better SS's than the Mets do, and most of them would have to give up a 1st round pick to get him..  Its not what he's worth to the other 29 teams, its what he's worth to the Mets.   

dexx
dexx

@Nicholas Catalano@Bryan McEntee The Yankees would love to have him but Jeter exercised his $14mil player option. 


The Pirates would love to have him, but they cant afford him.


The Red SOx want him, but their top prospect is a SS and ready for the majors. 


 Baltimore has JJ Hardy & Manny Machado waiting in the wings. 


Tampa Bay has Escobar, & Hak Ju Lee at AAA


Toronto has an albatross contract owed to Reyes & Kawasaki as a backup


Detroit traded for Iglesias and let Peralta walk


Chicago has A.  Ramirez under contract for 2 years


Cleveland has A. Cabrera, Lindor, R. Rodriguez & Aviles as a backup


Minnesota spent all their money on pitching and have 2 young SS in Dozier& Floriman


KC-  Alcides Escobar


Oakland - Lowrie with Addison Russell knocking on the door.


Texas- Andrus, Profar Sardinas


Seattle- Miller & Franklin


Astros- Villar, Fontana & Correa


Angels- Aybar, but they would much rather have Drew.


That's just the AL, but Drew had a higher WAR in 2013 than everyone except for Y. Escobar & J. Lowrie on that list.


What a dumb statement.



dexx
dexx

@MMIAA@rico He doesn't really have that much talent.  He was never even close to a Top 100 prospect.  He is average to below average defensively, can't steal bases, can't hit for power or extra bases, and can't hit RHP. 


He is a slightly below average SS,  IF he reaches his full potential.  Otherwise he a backup, at best.

BringBackDaveTelghe
BringBackDaveTelghe

It's the same reason the baseball writers hall of fame vote is so bad....a good chunk of Americans are so lazy and ignorant they can't be bothered to expand their knowledgebase. I actually think a site should literally do a SABR stats for dummies on all the ones that are basically now commonplace and universally accepted.

Hank Lee
Hank Lee

They are all real. Batting average and OBP have black and white rules and are easy to calculate. WAR is more complex. Both can be misleading. BA is influenced significantly by chance. BA does not factor in park factors.

Smart people leverage all 3. Lesser minds prefer one set or the other.

Mark Kelly
Mark Kelly

@MMIAA@nymetsrule@Rich ColacinoWar is not madeup. It's a calculation the same way Hits divided by AB's are and if you want madeup things it's hits per AB and not Hits per Plate appearance, you know becasue BB's are as good as a hit and all.


But if you don't like the stat keep saying it's MADEUP

Frank D
Frank D

@dexx Solid analysis.  You can even go as far to say that the O's have the 2 best Shortstop in the AL.  Machado is something special.  I will use these points as a way to make fans understand that Sandy is very much in the running for Drew.  Sandy is a Saber guy and Drew provides plenty when you take into account his stellar defense (12th best percentage all time for SS).  


When you realize that the market for SS is so small, and that the Mets are competing with 1 team, it makes sense that Sandy will talk up his current SS and wait out Drew's negotiation.  Drew is in no way a great hitter.  If we could go back in time, I'm sure we'd all like to have Reyes again.  But the fact is that we don't, and it's time we start putting a legitimate product on the field, time and time again.  

foley
foley

@dexx @foley 


We have to.  For years its been better than the regular season.

foley
foley

@dexx 


Thank you for the work that went into this post.... good analysis.

dexx
dexx

@MMIAA@dexx@rico I don't look at SS for power, but the post said that he has a lot of talent, and that is simply not true.  He doesn't have the tools to be anything other than average is everything goes perfectly and he reaches his potential

dexx
dexx

@MMIAA@dexx@rico Exactly.  People forget that there are 2 halves to each inning.  Players bat 4 times a game on average, but you play in the field for 9 innings, and SS is arguably the most important defensive position. Well, its really not arguable.

MMIAA
MMIAA

@dexx @MMIAA @rico hes better defensively then Reyes could ever dream of. He didnt show it last year but that's a fact. If he batted in the 8th spot and did what he did in 2011 you would have a problem with that? BTW since when do you look at SS for power?